May I ask the forum to explain to me the disparity in the asking and bid prices for various preowned and some new Oppo Digital Universal Players for sale on Audiogon and on another well known resale site? I'm seeing prices all over the scale. I know they're no longer manufactured but the asking and bid prices don't seem to make any sense. For example, there's a BDP-93 manufactured in 2011 with an asking price is $250.00, another one built in 2010 at $310.00 and another at $150.00 similar vintage. There's a BDP-95 Blu-ray Universal Player for sale at $643.00. There's a UDP-205 for $3,000.00 manufactured in 2017. There's a BDP-83SE that's 10 years old with an asking price of $433.00. There are three new UDP-205s with asking prices from $3,699.00, $4,999.00 & $5,295.00 !! The UDP-205s new were $1,299.00 when they became available. There's a new UDP-203 built in 2016 at $820.00......new they were $549.00. I own a BDP-103 from 2014 purchased brand new at $500.00 and it's still in excellent condition. What is that worth should I decide to sell it here may I ask?
I think the answer is that many are trying to milk the demand for all it’s worth and others are just being fair. I look at these quite often on the used market and that seems to be the case. The demand will subside after a while after all they are no longer made. I have a BDP83 still that I bought new ten years ago and it’s been a great player. I use it as a transport into an outboard DAC for both music and movies. However it is finally starting to have problems with the drive. I just bought a Cambridge CXC CD transport to replace the CD functionality and I must say it does sound slightly better than the OPPO. So ya when looking at ten year old components you have to be wary of how much life they may have left in them and they should be priced accordingly. Let the buyer beware.
You dont buy 10-15 year old CD players!! In most cases once the Laser goes you now have a $200-500 doorstop. I sold about 12-15 205's for $2800 - $3200 over the last couple of years. Its called the law of supply and demand. Your 103 isnt worth much cause it cant be used to make SACD Copies like the 105 can. You can get about $800 for a 105.
Great feedback everyone. Thanks for your excellent insights and information. Very interesting and rather unprecedented. In all of my years in this great hobby of high end audio (40), I don't recall seeing source components sold at higher prices than at their original offerings. That speaks volumes about the quality and mystique of the OPPO Digital line. I love riaa_award_collectors comment that you don't buy 10-15 year old CD players. Absolutely correct yet Ianrmark sold two 10 year old units in a day !!! It floors me to learn that riaa sold 12-15 UDP-205s at that price range. Absolutely amazing. I didn't realize the 105 can make SACD copies. I do use the 103 to play my small collection of SACDs and it sounds terrific plus I also have a Marantz UD5007. Both great sources for the $$$. I use both so that one doesn't wear out sooner than the other. That's the fun of this business. It's good to know that sonicjoy's BDP-83 has lasted 10 years. Excellent info.
The Oppo 205s are barely worth their original asking price. They have an DAC, and weak analog section and power supplies. The outrageous asking prices for the new Oppos are far above what they are worth.
I purchased a 205 shortly before they were discontinued based upon all the positive reviews and feedback to replace an aging Sony SCD-777ES. This was the first and last time I will ever purchase a component without listening to it first. I was very disappointed with the sound quality. It wasn’t even decent, let alone great, considering all the professional reviews I read. My old Sony (a great sounding player IMO) was significantly better. While I sat back and thought about how best I could get rid of this dramatically overrated black box, a shocking thing started to happen. The prices started going crazy. The higher they went, the more demand there was. I almost sold it too soon. I held off until prices went over 3k and then I quickly listed it and sold it. What a relief. Not only did I get rid of it, I made an impressive profit. For all of you considering purchasing an used Oppo, don’t, unless you just want it for its DVD capabilities.
Although I don’t subscribe to his philosophy, in the words of Gordon Gecko *Wall Street) "Greed is good". 2 more well known, and more applicable quotes are; There’s a sucker born every minute, and A fool and his money are soon parted
That as background: I bought 105 new at least 8 years ago, strictly to play SACDs. My red book player was a Pioneer PD 65 that had Musical Concepts mods, including an outboard power supply. I used it as a transport with various DACs. About 2 years ago, while surfing E-baye I came across a pure silver replacement jumper attached to a Rhodium Furutech IEC that connected to the 105 power supply. It was expensive for what it was, but DAM! I then upgraded the crappy power supply to one on eBay (~$160). Both of these transformed my 105 into a serious red book player, which I really only discovered after my PD 65 finally died. I replaced it with a Marantz HD CD 1, a cd player but with all the newest outputs. I never listened to it as a player, instead connecting it to my Audio Alchemy DDP-1 + PS 5 power supply, and was a very happy camper
One day I decided to listen to it for red book using the variable out volume control. Thanks to the 2 power upgrades, I no longer listen to the Marantz, or use the AA
The Oppo 205 features a very fine DAC chip, the same as used in top ranked DAC's costing many time the Oppo's price. The analog section features a decent sized toroidal transformer that would be comparable to many preamps, and a fully balanced output stage. The transport capabilities are amongst the most generous ever. Input and output options are plentiful for both 2 and multichannel. It is very compatible with many different contemporary and legacy formats. Garnering near universal praise from professional reviewers. It is a popular candidate for upgrading options. It punches way above it's weight class.
Is it snobbery or jealousy or what that provokes this contempt? I don't see how anyone can deny the value of these devices.
Oh yeah, I think it sounds very good indeed. IMHO, better sound comes at a much higher price with more limitations.
The Oppo 205, at its original MSRP of $1295.00, could be considered a “reasonable” value I suppose as a mid fi product. However, it certainly is not worthy of the inflated prices it has been going for since it was discontinued. The midrange and high frequencies are very clearly “digital” sounding. That is one of the first things the mod guys work on. Just because it has the Sabre 9038 DACs does not mean it automatically sounds great. I spoke out about this product not because of snobbery or jealousy, but to warn people to not be sheep and pay inflated prices for an extremely overrated product. Now for the snobbery part. If you are still listening to Thiel speakers, that would explain why you don’t hear the problems with the 205. I worked in high end audio for years and Thiel was one of the speaker lines we carried. I spent a lot of time with equipment and cable pairings trying to tame that tweeter.
Part of the reason the 205's price is up there is its ability to be used in a Multi-Channel setup. Go check out what a MC Dac goes for all by itself. The EXASound (Which I am sure sounds MUCH better than the Oppo Dac) will run you about $4500. I dont believe there are any other MC Dac's currently being produced as a stand alone.
@briano, your certainly entitled to your opinions. It just might be more palatable if it was presented as such, rather than as factual declarations. That professional reviewers have almost universally published just about complete opposite opinions touting it’s value is telling. That these units seem to be garnering the prices asked for them says even more. As for the Thiel’s, they too garnered similar praise. What ever your issues with the tweeters might be misplaced. The Thiel’s were amongst the first with flat truly extended response. Many systems of that era with the then newly popular moving coil cartridges with their rising top end, and/or the fairly new digital sources of the time with their brick wall filters were geared to compensate for a rather different less neutral spectral response. There is more to a speaker than it’s tweeters.While specs don’t tell the whole story of a speakers sound, at the very least they offer objective comparison. I think a list of speakers with comparable complete performance specs any where near those Thiel’s will be very short indeed.
I have a Oppo UDP-205 and love the way it sounds. But if anyone is really willing to pay $$$$ to play SACD/CDs, then look for the latest Technics SACD player or the Marantz Ruby SACD or a Yamaha S2100 player. There is no denying that the Oppo is a fantastic player for the original price.
The professional reviewers liked the UDP-205 at the price of $1295.00 (I could write a book on the dubious nature of “professional reviewers”.) I highly doubt one of them would recommend it at the current prices. I bought the Marantz Ruby player after I sold my 205 and there is simply no comparison between the two. Yes, the Ruby has a significantly higher MSRP, but when the 205 is selling in that neighborhood, I have to point out how silly that is. I understand that many people find the 205 to be fine sounding, however, in what type of system? If it’s being used in systems that are not very resolving such as receivers and low price integrated amps, it will be fine. When the price jumps up to the 3k plus range, then it must be judged against other components in that price range and here is where it falls flat. In a high resolving system, it’s problems become very noticeable. The mids and highs become very digital sounding. Again, for $1295.00 it’s a reasonably good product. But I caution anyone thinking of paying an absurd price for one of those to first compare it to other products in the same price range that you are considering paying for an Oppo. One more thing. I have been in and out of the high end audio business for more years than I would like to admit. I urge you to take “professional reviewers” opinions with a grain of salt. There was a case where a well respected reviewer required a very expensive dinner and many bottles of wine just to review a product. Reviews based upon receiving long term loans of equipment. How many pages of advertising bought. I’ve seen and heard it all. Very common knowledge in the industry. When’s the last time you read a truly negative review?
I understand that many people find the 205 to be fine sounding, however, in what type of system?
@briano, Looks like you have some kind of rub against Oppo. My system is listed under my moniker. If you cared to look into it you would have found out. You do not list your system, you have less than 20 posts, come here and claim BS on Oppo. And you expect us to trust you rather than the reviewers? At least reviewers discuss about what they currently own and what they did to review the product. No one here is encouraging other users to buy the Oppo at the current asking prices. But when a poster repeatedly beats around the same bush, something is fishy, especially about such posters.
You caught me. I’m trying to drive down the cost of UDP-205 players universally so I can buy them all up and corner the market. You’re too smart for me. My system consists of Octave electronics, Wilson Yvette speakers, Marantz Ruby CD, Linn LP12, various Synergistic, Nordost, Analysis Plus, Shunyata, etc. wires, power cords, interconnects, and power conditioners. I don’t care enough to list all the specific components and model numbers. I had no idea the number of posts determined ones credibility. Continue enjoying your 205.
How does your Ruby do with Multi-Channel?? Right....it doesn't. I have a SA-10...guess what...it doesnt compete with my Luxman D-08u or Esoteric K-01X. (But I bet its better than your budget Ruby)
I still have half a dozen Oppo's laying around. WHY? Because its a Universal Player that can be used as a transport that can be teamed up with a Better Dac. POWER CHORDS also improve the performance drastically on the Oppo's. Its obvious to me you are clueless as to why a Oppo might be beneficial to many in this hobby for its jack of all trades ability. For somebody with SOOOO much experience its amazing how ignorant your comments are.
@briano,Oh, I surely enjoy listening to my Oppo 205. Talking about credibility - making helpful posts would be super helpful. Instead of bashing the Oppo, if you had suggested alternatives, that would be helpful. Being in the hifi world, for so long you should have known that. Looks like half your posts here are to bash a product that is no more made, but demanding crazy prices.
FWIW, IMHO, @riaa_award_collectors_on_facebook (that's a handful) :-), post might have been a tad harsh. @briano, 's response was truly funny. Briano, your comments regarding reviewers is not unique and we have read similar comments before. But, to be fair it's not as though all comments about salesmen have necessarily elevated their status either.
First, the good news. This will be my last post regarding the Oppo UDP-205 player. I decided to reread this post from the beginning. The OP asked about the diversity of pricing regarding the Oppo products. He mentions seeing pricing of $3699.00, $4999.00, and $5295.00 for UDP-205’s. Having owned one, I thought I would reply with my opinion regarding those prices. I was not impressed with the sound quality of my unit. That is my opinion. I may have been too harsh in my description of the sound quality for some people. Later, I mentioned that I did agree it was a reasonable unit for its original MSRP. I also mentioned in my first post that I didn’t recommend it for playing CD’s. DVD’s and multi-channel are a different story. If you carefully read my posts (that means all the words) it is very clear that I am talking about the value of the player in the context of the current pricing. I have been accused of bashing Oppo, having an sinister motive, etc. I have nothing personal against the UDP-205. I’m wasn’t enamored over it, so I moved on. The point I was “trying” to make was that I felt the current pricing of the 205 was absurd considering it’s performance. That was my opinion to the OP’s original question. Apparently that hit nerve of every Oppo owner here. I was challenging your purchasing decision and you were going to let me know. That’s fine. If you like your 205, please enjoy it. It’s your ears you have to please not mine. However, I still encourage everyone to listen carefully to the 205 before shelling out the dollars apparently required to purchase one now. Milpai suggests that I make alternate suggestions. Thanks to him, he already has. His post on 1-12-20 recommends Technics, Marantz, and Yamaha. I concur. I would also recommend Cambridge. Regarding DVD’s, I would also highly recommend tvad’s recommendation of the new Panasonic player. Now on to my last comment which is very telling of riaa blah blah blah’s last post. In it he mentions that he still has half a dozen Oppo’s laying around. In pdn’s post on 1-5-20 he mentions that he finds it crazy that riaa sold 12-15 UDP-205’s at those inflated prices. This may explain his aggressive comments on 1-14-20. Does somebody have more than just an opinion here. Does he have, oh say, about half a dozen reasons to aggressively defend the 205. Look up his comments under the post about modifications to the Oppo players. He mentions what a fine job Dan at Modwrights does regarding his modifications to the Oppo players. Keep in mind that Modwrights full mod to the 205 is just about double the cost of a 205 at MSRP. Why is Modwrights doing such a brisk business modifying these? Also on display are several interesting comments he makes using his people skills. Interesting, very interesting.
Oppo 205 owner here as well, and still satisfied with it for most duties (CD, SACD, BluRay, UHD 4K discs). I use LUMIN U1 Mini for network streaming (it’s OpenHome compliant vs just UPnP/DLNA); and RME ADI-2 DAC for headphones (the 205’s headphone out didn’t suit my needs since I need some EQ for my fickle Sony MDR-Z1R headphones).
I was on the fence in April 2018 about whether I would buy a 205, then I read the notice they were going out of business. So I ran out and bought one thinking I could always sell it to a diehard Oppo fan if I didn’t like it. Paid the $1299 retail price and got the last one at my local Magnolia (the last one in my State at the time actually). Well, haven’t sold it yet despite the profit I could make because it’s just a great all-around device for my needs. I do worry about the lack of firmware upgrades and the effects that will have on compatibility down the road if things like UHD/HDR BluRay specs change.
I’m glad I bought it at retail prices, but I definitely would not pay the current online asking prices.
Yea get your facts straight. I only have 1 205 left for myself. Rest are 105's which have the ability to burn SACD unlike the 205 which makes it more valuable to some (Bet you didnt know that either). I havent sold a 205 in well over a year now and yep...no experience with Modwright. Oppo's dont retain their value because they sound wonderful spinning redbook CD's which apparently is the only use the Basher has used it for. Dont move to the Northeast if your skin is so thin...you'll never survive.
...And if you want your Mid-Fi Ruby to sound twice as good swap out the crappy Marantz Power chord for something better. Here is an affordable Luxman Power chord that works wonders on the SA-10. You can thank me later. Ebay# two/eight/three/five/seven/one/zero/two/seven/one/nine/three
Check not just the prices listed but also what the OPPO actually sold for. Some people are listing a price that nobody will pay in the midst of the hysteria.
The Opps read all formats and the transport built like a tank. They look fabulous as a blu ray player
I have a BDP 83, 105 and 105 Darbee. I like the multi channel HT analog outs on the 105 (not on 205_ ), Bluray is great and they are wonderful transports, but limited sound quality in a serious 2 channel setup. Merged with a high end dac - it is a winning combo
Right now the prices are high - they will continue to be for the 105 and 205 models.