Wire a resistor on the tweeter leg to tame the irritability. May have a resistor now, but I have found most cheap speakers have REALLY simple crossovers(bereft of components). A good, wire wound from a company like Ohmite(better than what's in 99% of the speakers) will not degrade the sound(in fact, I have found they get rid of much of the brightness and glare - even when the same value as an original is used). The value needed would be from one to three ohms(depending on your current crossover - and how bright the speaker really is). Cost would be about $2(assuming you wire it yourself). If you want to do it temporarily, remove the positive lead, wrap the lead of the resistor into that connection, and use electrical tape to connect the resistor to the cable. Play it for a week or so before you make a conclusion. If you are happy with that, fine. If not, go ahead and buy a Vifa or Seas($15 - $25 each, depending on model - get one of the cheaper ones) tweeter that will hopefully drop right in. You won't need a Dynaudio, a driver is only as good as the crossover behind it(and the crossover in your Infinity won't be the best ever). Use it without the previously installed resistor(unless your speakers came with a resistor - then use the Ohmite). Some may say don't change the tweeter, but at this point, what's the difference? You are unhappy, and will replace them at some point if you continue to feel this way. So why not take the chance? Good luck! |
Sean, you are partially correct about what happens when a resistor is inserted into the speaker circuit. Output is lowered, tonal characteristics are changed. THAT IS THE POINT!!! Crossover frequency is left UNAFFECTED by resistors. Resistors merely attenuate the output. Here we want to tame a bright speaker. MANY, if not most speaker companies wire a 1 to 3 ohm speaker in series with the tweeter, on purpose. They want the speaker to be 3 db down at 15K. Why? Because most people complain the same speaker without that resistor is too bright. Crossover frequency IS determined by capacitors AND inductors. A capacitor in series limits a lower frequency being passed to a driver. And inductor in series limits a higher frequency being passed to a driver. A first order crossover has a capacitor on the positive side on the tweeter leg, and an inductor on the positive side of the woofer leg. If you had a midrange, it would have both a capacitor and an inductor in series(again, on the positive side) with that driver. Rolloff would be 6 db/octave, depending on the component values used. Adding an inductor in parallel to the tweeter, and a capacitor in parallel to the woofer(and both in parallel to the midrange) is a second order crossover(12 db/octave), and so on. Alternating these components in series and in parallel(maybe confusing, but no need to explain in detail here) takes us up to 4th order(normally). Resistors don't factor into this crossover equation AT ALL. Their purpose. To attenuate drivers. Say a tweeter with 91 db/2.83 V sensitivity is used in a speaker with an 89 db/2.83 V sensitive woofer. The tweeter needs to be quieted down a bit(we can't increase the woofer output), for the speaker to be balanced(I still listen before inserting the resistor - just to get a baseline feel). We may also need other things in the circuit(won't discuss them here), but they come later. |
Opinions on speaker crossover theory are as varied as the colors of the world. Disagreements regarding how to design/modify/tweak a speaker are a dime a dozen(1000X more so than any other area of audio). The only thing that can be absolutely said is that you cannot follow all the rules. Everything that you do, breaks at least 25% of them(and wait till you compound them all together...). If anyone disagrees with that they have never done anything in the world of speakers. I believe in simple crossovers(I don't say that others don't work), and simple solutions(wiring a resistor in series to attenuate a driver). My current speakers(Coincident) have exactly TWO components in the crossover(a capacitor on the tweeter, and an inductor on the coil). Some may say that's ludicrous, "what about notch filters, Zobel networks, attenuation circuits, etc. - you NEED those". NO, you don't. My speakers sound fabulous. And Israel Blume is revered by an increasing amount of people every day. Bud Fried had his business(when it still was in business) 5 minutes from my home. Most of what he said directly contradicted what the "experts" said, and vice versa. He would(and still will) get into violent arguments(with ANYONE) regarding what he believed in(transmission line bass loading, series crossover networks, driver selection, how he didn't care about how rock sounded on his speakers - it was only the music of drug addicts, etc.). Despite this, Fried speakers are legendary(and even sound good with rock music despite Bud's discounting it), as are the products of many other companies(basically almost every other speaker company). My opinions are based on the personal experience of building and listening to many speakers. Along the way, I came across many a person who would use the suggested technique, foremost would be Joe D'Appolito. Obviously, others have differing views. If someone disagrees with this technique, fine. Try an alternate route. But I KNOW this works. |
No one is suggesting going through one's electronics and replacing parts willy nilly. This is a specific fix, based on experience and SUCCESS. To lead people to believe that inserting a resistor in series with a tweeter will cauuse the walls to come tumbling down is irresponsible. To many, it shows a lack of REAL knowledge(not the kind that magazine readers espouse) and/or experience in working with loudspeakers. I do not doubt a person's expertise in electronics, skills which I readily admit I do not possess. However, in working with hundreds of loudspeakers over a 20 year period, I know what I am talking about. I do not pretend to be able to predict the opinions of anyone, but I do know how they feel when they explicitly say something. Joe D'Appolito's advice(in almost every instance of the many I have heard him)for the taming of a harsh tweeter is insertion of a series resistor, as a first step. It works, and I have NEVER seen or heard things go wrong. As stated before, there are alternate routes to solving this problem. Other speaker designers will take different roads. No problem. I would like to see more of them in this thread. But, I respect Joe more than anyone in this field. He does not BS people. Nor is he out for fame(although he cannot avoid it) or fortune. He offers free, PERSONAL advice on all areas of the speaker hobby. And while his tastes are not the same as everyone out there(how could they possibly be?), he is genuinely interested in providing people with the satisfaction and answers they ultimately seek. He is out there, on the front lines, freely sharing his knowledge for the betterment of the hobby. |
Well thank you for providing your eulogy to us all. I do not frequent other sites, so I am relying on this thread for you to add something meaningful to both this person's problem, and my general knowledge. I would go along with the cable suggestion as something to investigate. Especially in light of the zippy low end Kimber currently being used. But, let's be specific. Could you be so kind as to enlighten me as to what "inexpensive( below $20) set of well chosen interconnects" are capable of getting this person some real results, without hurting other areas? Yes, the resistor is quick and dirty. Is that something to be ashamed of? I don't propose that the guy begin a research campaign. He wants a problem solved. And in your own words regarding the $2 resistor, "it will work". |
$64K question: How could you ever ascertain where my horizons are, or aren't??? You know almost nothing about me... It does cause me to wonder that from your overly defensive and sensitive reaction to the comment, you may indeed be one of those magazine readers. But hey, if the shoe fits, wear it. Regarding the $20 interconnects, there is always a roster spot on my cable revolution team. However, testimonials and references mean little without knowing who and where they are coming from. Too much BS out there. I have an extremely low tolerance for BS artists. Information is only as good as the source. If it comes from someone I know from this site, then I put great stock in it. I trust these people immensely. Their record speaks for itself. We are blessed with incredibly diverse, intelligent, and in-tune Audiogon members. |
Again I am at a loss over you passing judgement about me. What would having feedback on this site have to do with anything(other than the fact that I buy a lot/not much through Audiogon)? I have completed two transactions on this site(and I don't peter around e-mailing people about equipment for sale unless I am seriously interested in pursuing it - waste of time for them and me). Neither of which garnered any feedback, but I can assure you that those people would do business with me again(they got their money within a day - with a smile). I don't change components on a frequent basis. I buy stuff I fall in love with(Jadis, Coincident, Sansui, silver cabling), and then happily live with it for a LONG time. I almost without exception buy my components from dealers in person. Even if I have to drive 3 or 4 hours to get to the dealer. I buy based on a rigorous audition. That precludes having feedback on this site as the transaction is not over the net, and many of those dealers are not a part of this site. I have visited other sites, but now stay on this one for the most part. I do that because I find the discussions and people here most interesting to me. Not sure what conclusions you'll jump to on that statement. And I also fail to grasp how you determined that I am not an active tweaker/experimenter/gear-head. As I said, I have been active in the speaker building hobby for approximately 20 years. Designing, building, modifying, and tweaking more speakers than you may believe(but not as much as I would have liked to in the past 3 years). I buy parts from speaker building resources such as Orca Design(via Madisound and Zalytron), North Creek, Solen NA, and local and national electronic parts supply houses. None of these vendors would list any feedback about me here. Shouldn't the fact that I discussed Ohmite, Dynaudio, Vifa, and Seas in this thread tell you I am active in the hobby??? I am getting off here also. Reiterating something I opined earlier in the thread, loudspeaker theory is the one area of audio most filled with disagreement, opinion, and all that goes along with it. Good luck Shabadoo. I sincerely hope the solution you wish for is close at hand. |
