They are all getting the new MK III of course.....
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That's an easy one: The best amplfier on the face of the planet just got better! Now it's even better than the best. It's the bestest amp ever...PERIOD....all friggen bets are off! Likely will be for a good long time too....until they release the Mk IV. Then it'll serve better use as a door stop or a boat anchor. By then you'll be sure to see those Mk III's at the highway exits in big city's with cardboard signs reading, "Will Amplify for Small Change...God Bless" Sheeit, there's even a Mk I turning tricks down in the Central District! I ran into an Audiophile at a meeting who'd succumbed in a moment of weakness and got some rash that he can't get rid of now.
personnaly, i thought it was a good question.
A brilliant and insightful question no doubt. One that is asked ad nauseum
on practically a daily basis about any given component that has miraculously
been succeeded by something better, faster, cheaper, prettier, more modern,
using the very latest technology has to offer, thicker billet, more blue lights,
please your wife in bed with a bigger johnson, blah, blah, blah. Watch your
hard earned dollars turn the gears of capitalism! Effective advertising and
promotion....and DK has thus far been a master at that. I have nothing
whatsoever against them or their amps, or their mastery of promotion, but I
think the fervor that kind of advertising and promotion causes is hilarious.
That kind of crap is so easy to make fun of because I deal with it in my work
every day. I'm not really making fun of DK as much as the folks who buy into
the steady stream of upgradidis. Hey, I speak from experience. I went
through the program and got help. Had the shakes and cold sweats
something fierce for what seemed like weeks on end. Finally busted out of
Betty Ford when the Chief put a hole in the wall with that big-ass sink. Now
I'm back here making fun of the pushers and the junkies while I shoot up with
another fix of silver speaker wire and NOS tubes.
It's a damn fine question, and I'm sorry I didn't think of it myself. Why the
heck are you guys selling off your DK amps? Was it that recall about the
exploding gas tanks on the Mk 2? Maybe it's because the new amps come
with a half dozen drool buckets you can hand out to your friends when they
listen to your system! No more cleaning up those pesky puddles of drool like
there was with the Mk 1 and Mk 2. In addition, the buckets are large enough,
and engineered in such a way that they can actually catch their jaws before
they drop and hit the floor, for which your friends will be eternally grateful.
Mark my words, those DK drool buckets with the patented "Jaw Receptacle" will be a coveted collector's item once discontinued, and you'll rue the day you didn't plunk down your plastic for a Mk III and dump that Mk II. Folks'll soon be singing the praises of the nostalgic old-days when DK gave them out for free with their amps, etched deeply with the DK logo. There'll be debates as to whether the more modern, plastic drool vacuums are a more effective with their whisper-quiet motor that tucks neatly into your asscrack to add to your listening pleasure. They've come a long way since the monogrammed DK drool bib of days of yore. And what a welcome change that was from the Bose spitoon (man, I hated cleaning those things out back in the 70's!).
Foster_9 - It's hopeless for me. I'm a lost cause. Get yourself out while you have still can my friend. There's a change of guard at the gates at Midnight and the new guy's got a girlfriend he sneaks in. Just wait for the lights to go out and the music to start and make a break for it. Don't look back, just keep running as fast as you can till you reach civilization. Don't wait another day to think about it...and if Albert Porter offers you any grape Kool Aid whatever you do, don't drink the stuff!!!
Don't stop your rants, Marco.
Hey, if I can save just one hapless newbee from the torment and pain I've gone through it'll all be worth it. Alternatively knowing that I got some sorry, desperate, trembling audio-junkie to look in the mirror and laugh his couch-potato-ass off at what he sees, well then it will not have been a complete waste of my valuable time. Rest assured I am right there laughing with him. Hey, wait a minute, he looks a whole lot like me!
Jax2: I begin to understand you. I've already spent way more on gear than I would ever have thought and am still in the hunt for a satisfying setup. Fortunately I have a unique wife that does not question what I spend on gear even though she doesn't understand why I keep going at it. She does not want to know. But if she knew, she'd think I lost my mind and so would others who know me. Even my best friend who knows me well would be shocked. It's about $15k at this point. But I'm a working man and that's a small fortune. But I feel like I've spent too much now to stop at less than a satisfying audio system. I'm looking for new speakers now as the last piece in the puzzle.
marco - that is some funny funny stuff.
I'm also somewhat amused by the DK-ascination here. It's like reading People or better yet, National Enquirer at the checkout line - "Evil snake boy is born to wharewolf-midget couple!" It's just too juicy to pass up. Anyway, I am also sure their amps are lovely sounding, but i will probably never find out for myself.
Howard(Boa2)- timing is everything... sometimes the golf ball is already tee'd up and waiting for launch...
Art - You are so correct... I have heard the DK and thought it was alright, not bad, not impressive for all the commotion. Not interested in the product at all personally, but your analogy to the "tabloid magz" in a grocery store checkout line is exactly whey I read the threads... almost always guaranteed laughs... "chumming the water" in an ocean of sharks.
(Nothing against DK, unfortunately for them they had a few dozen too many new user shill posts every other day for a month or two...)
Many people are selling the DK Mark II's as TVAD said, simply becaue the Mark III is out.
It's the search for the better and best, I guess.
Three obvious changes, Better Caps, the Cardas,a variable output for those who want to use a sub (this may be a reason for many to move to the Mark III) and better binding posts.
Most of the audiophiles I have known through the years are just looking to improve their system, and this is a move forward, not earth shattering, but only $200. more at the retail level. The changes were in response to customer input.
Thanks, and I hope this answers the basic question.
Larry R. Staples
I still say the answer to the question is that DK Mk II amps are being sold off because the Mk III has been released. Either dealers are dumping their Mk II inventory, or Mk II owners are dumping their amps to move on to the Mk III. In any case, this thread doesn't appear to me to have anything to do with shilling for DK.
Where's "Betterthencrack" when you need him?!?!
I'm turning blue here holding my breath, and now there are sixteen Mk II's
including two auctions. Three Mk III's too...maybe you oughta ask them as
In comparison there are four Bose 901 speaker sets for sale. There are three
PrimaLuna amps which have also undergone a popular and rapid sucession of
their line (Prologue One, Two and Three...and one other as I seem to recall).
Jolida Amps...there are currently five used ones for sale...two 202's and three
302's. There are a buttload of Pass Labs X series amps currently for sale,
which exceeds the number of DK. What's it all really mean in the grand
scheme of high-end audio, as far as you, the individual user is concerned?
IMNSHO, absolutely whatever you want it to mean. You can speculate till the
cows come home. It still will mean the same (no)thing!!! Judge the stuff with
the two ears you got, and all three if you've got an extra! Make up your own
damn mind. No doubt DK has a product worthy of your consideration, in
whatever encarnation. So do a whole gaggle of other amp manufacturers (is
that "gaggle" or "herd"??!!).
The reason for so many Mark II's for sale, could be the introduction of the Mark III, as TVAD suggested.
At least that's our guess. It is always hard to tell, but some of the 'improvements' to the Mark III, inspired by customer input, seems to have caused many to seek out our Mark III. We have noted that sales of the III, have been surprisingly fast during the traditionally slow season, both domestically and internationally.
We incorporated three major changes in the Mark III, addressing the recurring requests for product evolution and improvement.
First, we allow for use with a subwoofer, by having variable output,
second, we improved the sound by using Cardas Caps,
third, we are using much better binding posts, while,
the price change was relatively minor,increasing to $3195.
In light of these improvements, we feel that this was a negligable change.
I seem to have noticed in the past, that the introduction of new product models, has the potential for creating a large number of older models for sale.
I hope this information is useful, and goes toward offering some explanation (if there is a valid one) as to why several of our customers have chosen to sell.
Then too, there is always the chance that some may have been 'early adoptors', who just want a different product now, and have simply moved on.
Larry R. Staples
DK Design/LSA Group
Having just purchased the company, I honestly can't address the question...yet...
I do know that I plan to put my own stamp on the product, and there will be some improvements, (yes) even yet to the Signature, which will be retro fitted to units sold up to the point of their introduction, at no charge to the consumer. Some of the issues surrounding DK, its marketing philosophy which has suffered the brunt of some ridicule, and probably rightfully so--happened prior to my having bought the company.
Many things will change, some have already.
For example, improvements made to the Signature--a universal cd, dvd, player incorporating tubes, using a well known chassis, rated 'best' in video terms already--a (probably two piece) hybrid Surround Sound unit, hopefully this fall.
Plus, reality with the F7, is hopefully just around the corner.
All these things are a grind to make happen, but necessary for our growth through customer demand, driven through customer satisfaction, and marketplace respect.
Having been a music lover, and musician for almost 50 years, I too love this stuff, and want to offer the 'best' we can.
We need to turn the current page of 'some' (though well chronicled) public opinion, get the 'glut' of Mark II's behind us--not that unusual, by the way with relatively new products--think VR2 VS Speakers after the VR4 jr hit the street. In some way's its a good problem to have, because with that many being sold on this site, that means that many hundreds are in the marketplace, and the name is well established. We need to be good business friends to our customers, and service them, while also offering the best products for the money.
I will fade now, as Peter Cincotti is singing the Godfather theme in the background.
Let me start by saying that I wish you the best with the company, and trust that your experience in the industry can change the product into something worthy of respect.
As you are undoubtedly aware, the prices of used DK products are pathetic, and I suspect that the DK brand deserves better than the disrespect the market is showing it. The problem goes back to the stunningly ill advised DK marketing campaign which you already noted as being probably not in the best interest of the company. If youll indulge me, I have some suggestions for the future I hope will be useful -
1)Keep those previously associated with DK quiet they provide no value, only more cynicism.
2)Dealers with multiple ads look desperate. Does anyone believe theres value in 9 of the same ad?
3)Stop with the Class A, (and now A+ (!) allegations) already. Its bullshit just say so. Smoke, mirrors, hype and bullshit are what got DK where it is today.
4)Delete the over-the-top hyperbole on the DK site The audience here is fairly sophisticated and we feel like our intelligence is insulted by moronic statements. The best speaker in the history of human kind Emotiontech engine, XDream technology, testing 90% of the components at up to twice the price oh my.
5)Be careful what you say. Youve already made statements youve quickly had to backtrack on. People appear to respect you dont use up your goodwill.
will interest less than 2% of the respondants(sp) on the page, if they fit within the normal demographics huh? what? Theres no way to rescue this. Just say you were tired or something.
Everyone, including Wilson is using MDF, and why not, is that mdf is cheap(sp-again). Oooops.
these F7's take almost 3 months to carve out of aluminum, with weighted CNC machines correction it took 3 months to make the CNC tapes Oooops again.
6)Make the shills go away. Looks like you have a handle on this already as we havent seen them recently. The DK promotion campaign had to be the worst ever concocted.
I hope that you can take what appears to be a decent product and rescue it. I think you have an uphill battle trying to reclaim your market, but wish you the best of luck in your attempt.
....Peter Cincotti is singing the Godfather theme in the background.
Don Staples, er, ah, Larry ain't jokin' folks. We found a horses head in our bed the other night!! Me and the Mrs. and Diesel are getting into the witness protection program so this may be the last you'll hear from me! Anyone know the best way to get blood stains out of white sheets?
Snofun3, The product has always been worthy of respect because of it's great sound and value. I agree that Larry's industry experience can correct some of the previous marketing mistakes, but I think the company will be judged on it's products and service. I was Larry's customer when he owned a store and nobody does customer service like he does! Great products and great service equals a great company, so I think good things are bound to happen.
The LSA Speakers, an HT piece, and a universal player should round out the lineup and make DK and LSA a serious player in the industry. Again, I absolutely expect these items to be great sounding and great values. I've had a chance to listen extensively to both the LSA1s and LSA2s. I would encourage anyone to include them on your short list if you are looking for speakers under $5000. The LSA1s are bookshelfs for $1000 and the 2s are $2000 floor standers. They are a perfect match with the DK integrated!
Before you ask, I fell in love with the DK integrated long before Larry even considered buying the company, and I own no stock in LSA Group. Frankly, the biggest concern I had about buying a DK was the crazy marketing of the product, but those concerns are gone now that the company has changed hands and Larry is at the helm.
It is interesting to note a totally different perception of the DK brand overseas. If you talk to audiophiles in Europe, the general impression is that the company is very respectable and conducts its business in a very respectable way. Perhpas because the 2-channel audio market in the US is so small DK may have been testing some new marketing strategies on the US market.
I refer to "universal player", (as I believe most do) as being inclusive of the DVD-A and SACD formats, which is why I commented that I wouldn't waste the time to include them given the reality of those formats in the market.
Many or most of the universal players on the market are not outstanding Redbook players until you get to the stratosphere in price.
I have to agree with Snofun3 entirely. I would add that the notion that all those used Mk IIs for sale represent happy consumers upgrading to Mk IIIs completely beggars credibility. I hope Larry will be able to turn this company around but the marketing thus far has dug a fairly deep hole. However good the engineering may be it is going to take both a very smart P.R. campaign and substantial capital reserves to get out of that hole.
It is a challenge but not impossible. If Larry puts together a network of the best dealers, gives great service, and introduces more high value products, DK and LSA will be fine. Things change quickly, and companies reinvent themselves all the time. Larry can make this work if he does the right things. If not, DK will die a quiet death. Many of us read these posts daily and perceptions change constantly. If the company gets some strong reviews for it's new products and has more happy customers, things will fall in to place and the marketing issues from the Daniel days will become just more great audio folklore.
I had a yellow Chevy II Nova in high school that I sold for $400 They sell today for between $12-$20,000. I obviously didn't know what I had.
Audio Gear is a commodity, just like anything else, and if someone can make a quick profit on a piece and leverage the purchase of a newer upgraded or more highly touted piece, then they will. It all has little to do with the intrinsic value of the item in question and more to do with a percieved illusion of value.
Many of you, I'm sure have sold equipment at some point that you had regretted losing. When everyone who really wants one for its intrinsic value has one they will stop becoming so readily available.
The DK Design Amps will have a very significant place in audio lore when the dust settles and people realize that even at retail, this is one of the most significant audio values in the last 25 years(My years in the business).
By the way, I was offered a mint stock cherry Dino Ferrari for $25k in the 80s. They go for as much as $100k today.
If you were able to snag a DK for ridiculous discount, you might just want to hang on to it. It has all the makings of a cult item.
Let me sum this up....
You sold an old Chevy Nova for $400 and its worth $12K to $20K.
You Didn't buy a $25K Dino thats now worth 100k.
You now recommend we buy DK's because they will be a collectors item!
By your own admission you missed two opportunities. Doesn't logic dictate that two mistakes are more likely to be followed by a third mistake?
Actually, because of the cost of amps available on the 'gon you could probably buy them all, get a corner on the market, and someday be a millionaire! Or not.
Our 1978 Klipschorns retailed for just under $1600/pr, and are now worth around $2-2200. I think putting some cash into GE stock would have offered a slightly better rate of return, but no cowbell.
Something I read once in the Seattle newspaper: if you had purchased a home on Capitol Hill (a pricey neighborhood in Seattle) when they cost $1000, you'd be a millionaire. Well, actually you'd be dead. Your descendants, on the other hand...