Rega P10 v Complete rebuild Garrard 401!


I currently have a Rega P3 that I’m generally happy with, but looking to upgrade and I’m in two minds.  Go old school with Garrard 401 or keep with new tech and get a P10.  Both are well regarded and there are plenty of individual reviews.  However I’ve not been able to find a comparative analysis (not really expecting to) so i thought i would ask here.  It would be paired with a Line Magnetic 508ia tub amp and Harbeth HL5 plus speakers.  
I listen to a wide range of music, from classic jazz, funk, soul and classic rock but admittedly i spend the majority of my vinyl time listening to thinks like Bowie, the Smiths, New Order, A Certain Ratio, Chameleons or similar.  
Any counsel?   
gunners01

Showing 6 responses by lewm

For what it's worth, I don't think we are talking about "wow and flutter".  I think the issue most harped upon by those who dislike idlers is noise manifest as rumble.  Let's face it, rumble is a potential problem, but proper restoration of the motor and moving parts and advanced methods of plinth design and build can reduce rumble to irrelevant levels, at least for Garrard and Lenco, based on personal experience.  A TD124 presents some more complex questions, because there you have both an idler AND a belt drive.
Here’s where I say (to Mijo) that I owned a Star Sapphire Series III with vacuum platter for about 10 years, as my one and only turntable. I sold it in the late 90s. I replaced it with a Nottingham Analog Hyperspace, another belt drive but an unsuspended one. Then came a succession of direct-drive turntables including a Technics SP10 Mk3 and a Kenwood L07D and a Lenco that I highly modified with slate plinth, massive upgraded bearing, Phoenix Engineering motor control, etc. My cumulative post-Sapphire experience revealed to me early on that the Sapphire had very poor speed stability. The decay of piano notes was frequently "sour". Bass was muffled and indistinct. And etc. Back in the 90s, I thought what I was hearing from the Star Sapphire was simply typical for vinyl reproduction. I realized the deficiencies of the Sapphire very quickly after purchasing the Hyperspace, and the issue was even more clear after I added a motor controller to the Hyperspace. All my subsequent turntables confirmed my initial post-Sapphire impressions of the Sapphire. I think a weakness of that old SOTA design, as I have noted many times, is the fact that the motor is mounted on the immobile plinth, while the platter floats on the suspension. This causes the belt to stretch when the suspension is activated, and may be the cause of the audible speed instability.

I do understand the potential value of suspending the works of a turntable, and I think the way to do it is to take an unsuspended turntable and put the whole shebang on a MinusK or Herzan platform. When you mention megabuck belt-drive turntables, you neglected to include the Doehmann Helix, which incorporates a Minus K stand into its structure. I have had some experience listening to the Helix, although I cannot afford one, and I found it to be the best sounding belt-drive I have ever heard. The Air Force turntables likely also air-suspend the entire chassis, to eliminate the stretching belt phenomenon, but I’ve never heard one. The fact remains that the SOTA Star Sapphire is not a contender. Since I do admire SOTA as a company, I would also mention that their more modern models (Cosmos, Nova, and Millenium) may have dealt with the problem I mentioned. And by the way, my Lenco is as silent as any other turntable I’ve heard, and in that system I run massive dedicated woofers in stereo from 100Hz down. We can argue all day about whose turntable is quiet and whose is not, but the point is that the 301/401 can be made to satisfy some discriminating audiophiles in that regard, your opinion notwithstanding.
Uber makes a good point. A properly restored 301 or 401 purchased at a fair price is very fungible.
The Rega, the Lenco, and the Linn LP12 probably speak 3 entirely different turntable languages.  The SOTA might even speak a 4th language.  So if you are a buyer, the best thing to do a priori is to figure out which characteristics you like best and which of those types gets closest to that.  The answer will be different or can be different from one person to another.  Do not believe the absolutist approach preached by Mijostyn at ever possible opportunity.  If you're interested, I will tell you what I DON'T like about a Sota Sapphire, but why bother?
I guess I will be castigated for saying this, but my impression is that Garrard work done in the UK is on average lower in bang for the buck than similar work sourced in the US.  This could be in part because Garrard and other UK products have such a loyal following in the UK.  Also, I am probably influenced by the prices at Loricraft, which are very high, IMO.
You'd lose nothing on the Garrard, if you were to decide to sell it.  And probably the same goes for the Rega, if you can find one for the right price.  But these are very different philosophies of how to play a record.  I would expect that one's a priori bias would more than anything else determine the outcome of such a comparison. Which is why you may want to do some more research in advance, by listening to turntables that employ different types of drive mechanism.