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Rega DAC vs. EE Minimax vs. Centrance vs. W4S 2

This is a summary of results comparing the Rega DAC against the W4S 2, Centrance Dacmini, and the Eastern Electric Minimax (First version).

The Rega has been running a signal since last Saturday, so according to some reports it may be about 150 hours from sounding it's best. The comparison to the W4S was done with a fully broken in Rega from Signature Sound. Powercord is a Pangea AC-14 (nothing fancy). The main sources were a Oppo DV981 and Macbook pro. System is Merlin TSM-MXr on Skylan stands, Manley Stingray II, MJ Acoustics 150 MK2 sub, Cardas wires.

Vs. Centrance DACmini
First of all...this thing is cool! It's perfect for a headphone system and it's form-factor matches the MACmini. Fed by the Oppo it provided fantastic midrange and smooth highs, but bass was less defined and a bit muddy. There seemed to be just a bit more glare from the DACmini as well, but it had a deeper soundstage than the Rega. The Rega had bass well handled and the soundstage was quite wide, especially on live recordings where it did a great job of capturing the scope of the venue. The owner of the DACmini and I agreed that that it had the Rega beat by a small margin in soundstage, but the Rega was the winner with better bass detail and less glare. Any change of cables or speaker or amp could probably swing the results differently.

Vs. Eastern Electric Minimax
I was excited to hear this unit since it's gotten a ton of good reviews. But...wow, my system did not agree with it. Here was (I assume) a good example of poor synergy. The Minimax sounded overly thick in the midrange (less so with the tube switched out) and this quality made it difficult to focus on it's clearly sweet high end. We tried it with some cheaper AQ cables, but this issue did not go away. My friend says it's quite stunning in his system and I don't doubt it, but in my system it was "thick" much like the modified Jolida 100a CDP I once owned.

Vs. W4S DAC 2
This unit was well burned in and it went up against the Demo Rega I auditioned in my system. The W4S 2 had a Signal powercord while the Rega had it's stock cord. I reviewed the Rega DAC in the review section and I have since concluded that the Rega's "less is more" design approach led to it's superior performance with Redbook CDs. It won mainly based on soundstage where it provided a deeper effect, while the W4S 2 floated a image well, but it was less dimensional. The W4S 2 seemed to extract a bit more detail, but also sounded too bright on some tracks. Once again we concluded that they were both doing a fine job and a change of associated gear could skew results differently. The W4S is certainly more versatile.

After listening to these units in my system and playing with some very pricey CDP's in recent months I've concluded that DAC's and CDP's offer the smallest upgrade range. Good DACs and CDP's are very close in performance so be suspicious when someone says one unit blows away another. As others have pointed out we get into some seriously expensive "diminishing returns" with this gear. I feel that the Rega (and I truly love the Centrance as well) offers great performance in the mid priced DAC arena. It bested the Audio Aero prima I tried and has better soundstage that several other units around the 5K mark. How it performs in a given system will be mostly a measure of the synergy with your other components and nothing definitive should be assumed by reading these findings or any other!

Cheers,

Rob
robbob

Showing 11 responses by robbob

robbob OP
273 posts
 
I've been burning in the Pangea AC-14, which has given the Rega DAC more detail at the cost of some glare. The glare is minimal and only present on a few recordings. The Pangea needs more burn in time before I can fully evaluate it. The only other cable I have on hand is a signal cable.

On the Rega DAC I have been using filter 4 most of the time and it was set to 4 during the comparisons. I have not really worked with the filter settings much. What have you found and what is your system?

Cheers,

Rob
robbob OP
273 posts
 
After spending considerable money on the Merlin and Stingray combo I must admit to getting a bit cheap on the wire ends! I went the cheaper Cardas stuff (still cost over a grand) and have not decided on a pricey power cord yet. I'll need to audition a few to decide if the differences add up for me. As for the Rega DAC, Rich at Signature Sound feels the stock Rega Cord is actually not bad at all. The Pangea was a cheap experiment, but I will try some other stuff. As for interconnects...I will buy better ones after I'm done setting up the new Macmini in the system.

Rob
robbob OP
273 posts
 
Tubegroover,

The sense of "thickness" was quite subtle. It was mainly effecting vocals and rendering them less real sounding to our ears, a sort of tubby quality. As I mentioned before I heard this same issue with my previous system which was based on Magnepan 1.6 with a Rogue Metis Preamp and Odyssey Stratos amp. Adding a Jolida CDP produced a slight bloat to the upper midrange that I did not care for.

Again, I want to stress that this was fairly subtle and the owner of the EE does not hear it on his system. He also owns a ARC Dac costing much more than these units and prefers the EE & W4S DAC 2 over it. As I always say...synergy is just about everything; the system, the room and the whole mess has to work together correctly with each link doing it's job.

Rob
robbob OP
273 posts
 
Looks like the New Rega Apollo R should be available quite soon!

http://www.whathifi.com/news/manchester-show-2011-rega-previews-apollo-r-player

I'll be ordering one to partner with the Rega DAC. Glad I waited on the transport.

Rob
robbob OP
273 posts
 
Nonoise,
I really like the Centrance and the glare that I spoke of was only evident a couple of times. A swap of cables or more burn in (it only had about 100 hours on it) might easily eliminate the issue. The Rega also had some glare, especially with the inexpensive Pangea power cord, but it's now mostly gone. The Centrance is right in there with the Rega, besting it in soundstage depth and as you point out it's clarity...for us resolution...was outstanding, perhaps a bit clinical compared to the Rega, but truly a matter of taste. The Rega won for us because it seemed to just be doing everything really well right down to the lowest frequencies. Reading the comments of other owners you'll see that some equate it's sound with a turntable. I wouldn't go that far, but it's certainly is an "impression" I agree with, if not in absolute terms.
If I snuck into your house and swapped out the Rega for the Centrance I'd lay odds you'd never hear a difference. That's how close they are. If I had a good set of headphones I'd probably buy the Centrance over the Rega without a second thought.

There is a "rumor" that Rega will now release a transport/CDP in the same size as the Rega DAC to match. Adding that to the Rega DAC will eclipse the Saturn player and I expect some small improvements overall. Which of course should remind us that I fed all of the DACs with an Oppo DVD player, which might be considered by some to be a weak link at the very least.

Rob
robbob OP
273 posts
 
Hi, MrTennis...

As I said, nothing definitive should be derived from my review. This is what I heard with my system. I've heard plenty of great gear sound less than great in certain systems and the owner of the EE has no issues at all with it in his system.
My system is fairly transparent, but that hardly means it will match well with every component on the market. There is also a subject of taste here as well. And I'll say it again....most of the time we could hardly tell the difference between these DACs. My system resolves quite well and my friends system (based on ARC and Vandy 5A's) is also excellent. Now that he has the EE back he initially reported that he heard none of what we heard on the Merlins. But last night we spoke again and he added that the EE does sound "fuller" in the midbass than his W4S 2. It's not a complaint. It's a quality. I just didn't care for it.

Rob
robbob OP
273 posts
 
Tubegroover...

I can't disagree with anything you've written! As I said, any component could easily change the presentation. Then there's always the chance that you may prefer how the EE sounds on my Merlins and find the Rega too lean.

Rob
robbob OP
273 posts
 
I listened to the EE Minimax in the owner's system along with the Centrance. While the EE is a fine DAC we both liked the Centrance better. There has been no tube rolling and in fact we felt it sounded best with the tube switched out.
The Centrance is an amazing DAC if midrange excellence is your goal. The W4S Dac 2 continues to sound just a bit too bright, but it also extracts detail and that's part of the price on some recordings. After hearing the EE in two systems it would probably be my last choice in the group. Perhaps tube rolling would alter that.
My Rega continues it's long break-in process and is now also partnered with a new Mac Mini running headless with a Ipad controller. When I get my hands on the new Rega Apollo R CDP/Transport I'll be very interested to see how it all stacks up.

Rob
robbob OP
273 posts
 
Perhaps...in relation to the Rega, Centrance and EE, I should modify the observation as the W4S being brighter. The unit was the brightest of the units I heard. My merlin/Manley system is quite good at extracting detail, but I would not ever call it bright on it's own.
The W4S also had the most detail and I have always maintained that detail will exact a penalty on certain recordings. That said, I think the W4S sounds very good. I do believe I've read comments from people who found it bright in their system, but this cannot be applied to ALL systems.
As I tweak and adjust the Rega and get more out of it, everyone should keep in mind that I had no chance to tweak or adjust the other units, so my review of them is quite limited. Owners of these units should sit back and enjoy! Perhaps a carefully adjusted and cable matched EE would best my Rega. Why worry about it....too much good music is waiting!

Rob
robbob OP
273 posts
 
In a few weeks I'll have the chance to listen and compare the Minimax plus to the Rega and W4S 2. It'll need to break in for a while though.

Meanwhile....The Rega continues to break in and improve....the closest I've heard a DAC sound to analogue..

Happy Turkey day!

Rob
robbob OP
273 posts
 
MrTennis, It's true that some DACS have tubes and others do not, but this means little if the overall synergy is not there. The owner of the Minimax prefers it without the tube. And I also seem to recall a great review of the unit also finding it more transparent without the tube. Changing the tube makes changes, but I prefer a component that focuses on one thing...the tube or SS design. In this respect the Rega seems like a more focused component to me and the benefits audible.
Now my friend who owns the Minimax just got the plus version and it's burning in. On the weekend we'll give it a serious listen. So far he's very impressed with it, but still says the midrange of the Centrance is the winner so far. On the other hand he says the Plus has amazing HF qualities right out of the box. These are all good DACs and there is no way to predict that one will be universally better than the next. I don't doubt that some systems do better with the W4S 2 and I don't doubt folks who prefer the sound of a Oppo 95 to some of these DACs. Tastes and system matching decide in the end, but I don't seek components that require my constant customizing to get them right. I own a Manley Stingray II tube amp. I experimented with tubes and ended up back with stock. It seems the designers know a thing or two afterall. BTW, I had pretty poor luck with tube based CD players. I found them all weaker than SS players. On the other hand I'm a 100% convert to tube amps now. I'm also a fan of systems using SS amps paired with tube preamps. But tube source components have not won me over so far. Maybe the Minimax Plus will change that, but this Rega (and the Centrance) are fairly impressive across the board. In the end I have trouble believing that many people would be unhappy with taking any of them home. Of course people want a "winner" or a "best in class" but I don't think it exists at this level because of the wide array of systems out there.

Rob
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