Thanks for your feedback Frank! I'll probably try to find a well burned in used SE to compare both side by side.
Greetings from Texas,
Boris
Greetings from Texas,
Boris
Ref-75-SE delivered ...
It arrived late yesterday via UPS. I had company over last night so I didn't hook it up 'till this morning. I had it playing by 7:30.
I sold the REF-75 early last month and was using my spare, which is a great sounding ARC- Classic 60. Man, if someone is looking for a musical amp at a reasonable price, the CL-60 would be a good way to go. It kind of has that vintage tube sound. Listening to music through it, is kind of like watching a good Technicolor movie. Hey, who doesn't like watching the original version of The Wizard of Oz? Its not right, but its beautiful. I mean, when you walk outside, Technicolor doesn't hit you in the face ... reality does.
Which brings me to the REF-75 and the REF-75 SE.
I bought my original REF-75 over two years ago, brand new, with KT120 tubes. What struck me about that amp was the lack of grain, the soundstage and the tonality. It played big and it played beautifully. That's what I thought until I swapped out the KT120's for a new quad of KT150's. Now that brought the amp up to a new level. Audio nirvana, I thought. Hummph, silly me.
Enter the REF-75 SE.
Fist thing, I let it cook for about a half hour in order to get the amp to stablize so I could check the bias. Good thing too because both sides needed biasing. The right channel was all way over to the "Caution" level.
Upon initial listening, I was really taken by how quiet this amp is ... I mean QUIET!! Not digital quiet, that kind of quiet just sounds totally artificial to me. What I mean is ... its a natural quietness unlike any tube amp I've ever heard.
For the first two hours, it was better than the REF-75 it replaced by maybe 20% or so. At the two hour mark, things really started to open up. Here's what my notes say:
Quiet!
Articulate.
Dynamic.
Decay of notes.
Presense.
Fast.
Leading edge of notes.
Weight in the lower registers of the piano.
Sustained notes - has me hanging on a thread.
So how does this play out when listening to music?
Like most of us, I have a little section of records (among thousands) that I use for reference purposes. They are the ones I listen to first when evaluating new equipment. I know every nuance of these records. Listened to them hundreds of time.
First up - Sue Raney on the Discovery label. The SE allowed me to hear the volume of air, and the force and reduction of force that was coming out of Sue Reney's chest and up through her throat. On the third cut, there is a triangle that the percussionist delicately hits. With all previous amps, I thought there was just one triangle. Turns out, there are three. For the first time, I could hear the slight difference in the notes. That was hidden before.
Second up- Sammy Davis Jr. Sings. Laurindo Almedia Plays. Reprise RS-6236.
Again, like the Sue Raney album, the air coming out of Sammy's chest and across his vocal chords and all of the subtlety of that was in his total control. Then, I realized that all of the really great singers do this and that's why they have the great instruments they do.
The guitar work being done here by Almedia is superb. Not my favorite guitarist, but on this album his playing grabs you by the emotions. BUT, through this amp ... a different world. The leading edge of the notes and the subtle decay of those notes make this album extra special now.
Keep in mind that we are only two hours in on this new amp at this point. The sound stage is still constricted and the 3-D imaging is on a par with the Classic 60, and not as good as the old REF-3.
Over the course of the day, I continued listening for a couple of hours each time. The more time that passed, the better the amp got.
Next Album .. about 4 hours in: The Norman Luboff Choir .. "But Beautiful" Columbia CS-8114. This is a demo quality record that has a tremendously wide sound stage. Its fun. The chorus is spread behind the speakers and goes from wall to wall. And now, I'm getting a 3-D image like never before. The articulation in each chorus member's voice has never sounded better ... not even close. There is a female soloist named Betty Mulliner who has her place behind and just to the left of the right speaker. With all other amps I've had, she has sounded diffused. The original REF-75 brought her out of the mist ... but not like the new SE. Now, she is in total focus and its like I can see her head move and hear her lips smack. I can get a true sense of her personality. Same thing on every vocal record I played today. Get this album if you like beautiful classic pop music from the 40's and 50's
Next: John Williams Paganni:Guitar trio - Hayden: Guitar Quartet. Columbia MS 7163. Again, this is a sound stage spectacular. I love this album, not just because I'm a classical guitar freak, but because its a great test of equipment when looking for correct tonality. Like the once vague female soloist in the last album, there is a cello in the right rear of the sound stage that keeps getting more refined as my system improves. With the REF-75SE .. gone is the vagueness. All of it. That cello is now in the room, tonally correct, and very moving. And John Williams? For the first time, I heard the strings of his guitar vibrate. The decay of the notes seemed to last forever. How may accolades can I pile onto Mr. Perfection on the classical guitar? Buy this album, you won't regret it.
Finally a mono record to die for: Dave Brubeck's Jazz Impressions of The USA." This record never came out in stereo. Near as I can tell reading the liner notes, it was recorded sometime in '55 or early '56. This is Paul Desmond at his very best. Not as hard boppin' as the Oberlan College album ... but man 'O man ... the second cut "Summer Song" has Paul Desmond right there in the room. Its never sounded better than today.
So, that kind of gives you guys a hint of what was going on at my place today. The amp burned in for 12 hours, and toward the end the sound stage has filled out nicely, dynamics are startling, musicians were in 3-D relief, and most importantly to me, the instruments all sounded tonally correct.
My source tells me that at this point, the amp is only scratching the surface. He says ... wait until 200 hours has gone by before seriously writing any review of the new amp. I couldn't wait ... its that good. Bottom line for all ARC REF amp owners ... even at this early stage, I can honestly say... the SE kills the old amp. Go for the upgrade.
I sold the REF-75 early last month and was using my spare, which is a great sounding ARC- Classic 60. Man, if someone is looking for a musical amp at a reasonable price, the CL-60 would be a good way to go. It kind of has that vintage tube sound. Listening to music through it, is kind of like watching a good Technicolor movie. Hey, who doesn't like watching the original version of The Wizard of Oz? Its not right, but its beautiful. I mean, when you walk outside, Technicolor doesn't hit you in the face ... reality does.
Which brings me to the REF-75 and the REF-75 SE.
I bought my original REF-75 over two years ago, brand new, with KT120 tubes. What struck me about that amp was the lack of grain, the soundstage and the tonality. It played big and it played beautifully. That's what I thought until I swapped out the KT120's for a new quad of KT150's. Now that brought the amp up to a new level. Audio nirvana, I thought. Hummph, silly me.
Enter the REF-75 SE.
Fist thing, I let it cook for about a half hour in order to get the amp to stablize so I could check the bias. Good thing too because both sides needed biasing. The right channel was all way over to the "Caution" level.
Upon initial listening, I was really taken by how quiet this amp is ... I mean QUIET!! Not digital quiet, that kind of quiet just sounds totally artificial to me. What I mean is ... its a natural quietness unlike any tube amp I've ever heard.
For the first two hours, it was better than the REF-75 it replaced by maybe 20% or so. At the two hour mark, things really started to open up. Here's what my notes say:
Quiet!
Articulate.
Dynamic.
Decay of notes.
Presense.
Fast.
Leading edge of notes.
Weight in the lower registers of the piano.
Sustained notes - has me hanging on a thread.
So how does this play out when listening to music?
Like most of us, I have a little section of records (among thousands) that I use for reference purposes. They are the ones I listen to first when evaluating new equipment. I know every nuance of these records. Listened to them hundreds of time.
First up - Sue Raney on the Discovery label. The SE allowed me to hear the volume of air, and the force and reduction of force that was coming out of Sue Reney's chest and up through her throat. On the third cut, there is a triangle that the percussionist delicately hits. With all previous amps, I thought there was just one triangle. Turns out, there are three. For the first time, I could hear the slight difference in the notes. That was hidden before.
Second up- Sammy Davis Jr. Sings. Laurindo Almedia Plays. Reprise RS-6236.
Again, like the Sue Raney album, the air coming out of Sammy's chest and across his vocal chords and all of the subtlety of that was in his total control. Then, I realized that all of the really great singers do this and that's why they have the great instruments they do.
The guitar work being done here by Almedia is superb. Not my favorite guitarist, but on this album his playing grabs you by the emotions. BUT, through this amp ... a different world. The leading edge of the notes and the subtle decay of those notes make this album extra special now.
Keep in mind that we are only two hours in on this new amp at this point. The sound stage is still constricted and the 3-D imaging is on a par with the Classic 60, and not as good as the old REF-3.
Over the course of the day, I continued listening for a couple of hours each time. The more time that passed, the better the amp got.
Next Album .. about 4 hours in: The Norman Luboff Choir .. "But Beautiful" Columbia CS-8114. This is a demo quality record that has a tremendously wide sound stage. Its fun. The chorus is spread behind the speakers and goes from wall to wall. And now, I'm getting a 3-D image like never before. The articulation in each chorus member's voice has never sounded better ... not even close. There is a female soloist named Betty Mulliner who has her place behind and just to the left of the right speaker. With all other amps I've had, she has sounded diffused. The original REF-75 brought her out of the mist ... but not like the new SE. Now, she is in total focus and its like I can see her head move and hear her lips smack. I can get a true sense of her personality. Same thing on every vocal record I played today. Get this album if you like beautiful classic pop music from the 40's and 50's
Next: John Williams Paganni:Guitar trio - Hayden: Guitar Quartet. Columbia MS 7163. Again, this is a sound stage spectacular. I love this album, not just because I'm a classical guitar freak, but because its a great test of equipment when looking for correct tonality. Like the once vague female soloist in the last album, there is a cello in the right rear of the sound stage that keeps getting more refined as my system improves. With the REF-75SE .. gone is the vagueness. All of it. That cello is now in the room, tonally correct, and very moving. And John Williams? For the first time, I heard the strings of his guitar vibrate. The decay of the notes seemed to last forever. How may accolades can I pile onto Mr. Perfection on the classical guitar? Buy this album, you won't regret it.
Finally a mono record to die for: Dave Brubeck's Jazz Impressions of The USA." This record never came out in stereo. Near as I can tell reading the liner notes, it was recorded sometime in '55 or early '56. This is Paul Desmond at his very best. Not as hard boppin' as the Oberlan College album ... but man 'O man ... the second cut "Summer Song" has Paul Desmond right there in the room. Its never sounded better than today.
So, that kind of gives you guys a hint of what was going on at my place today. The amp burned in for 12 hours, and toward the end the sound stage has filled out nicely, dynamics are startling, musicians were in 3-D relief, and most importantly to me, the instruments all sounded tonally correct.
My source tells me that at this point, the amp is only scratching the surface. He says ... wait until 200 hours has gone by before seriously writing any review of the new amp. I couldn't wait ... its that good. Bottom line for all ARC REF amp owners ... even at this early stage, I can honestly say... the SE kills the old amp. Go for the upgrade.
151 responses Add your response
Hi, decibell ... I still have the ARC REF-75se. I'm enjoying it very much. Everything I've said in this entire thread still applies. As additional upgrades have been made to the system such as cables, fuses, room treatments, etc., the amp just reveals more of what it does well.   On the parts issue:  I know the circuit board has been lowered in the chassis to accommodate the KT-150's.  The lid didn't fit on the old REF-75 with the KT-150 conversion because the tubes were too tall. Also, I know some of the wiring was upgraded. I think I heard that the circuit board is thicker as well to reduce micro vibrations ... but I'm not positive about that. As to other parts that were changed, a quick call to ARC would get your questions answered. I wholeheartedly encourage you to send your amp into ARC for the upgrade. Frank |
Oregonpapa, I own a Ref75 running on KT-150s for quite some time now. Am very happy but interested in upgrading to SE. Do you still have your SE? Still happy? I was looking for info in regards what components are actually different. Comparing my Ref75 with SE pictures I can not find a visual difference - other than the circuit board of the SE is coated/insulated. Do you have any info on parts involved? PS Easy and nice upgrade is a replacement of the cables connecting XLR sockets and circuit board. |
^^^  Thanks, Joe.  Music has been a passion, along with good literature since I was a child. My mother was the big influence on me. She had a good collection of 78's and a decent record player. I used to get up early on Sunday mornings and quietly go into the living room and play her big band music and the vocalists that came along with them. I've been a Jo Stafford and Frank Sinatra fan since I was seven years old. Now, seventy years later ... I'm still hooked on Jo Stafford and Frank Sinatra.  Of course, the musical taste has been widely expanded since then. As I write this, I'm listening to Merle Haggard's "greatest hits" on Spotify.  There's an old saying ... "If you ain't heard Merle Haggard, you ain't been listening'"  ":-) I'm really looking forward to the Newport show this year. My friend Robert and I will be there Saturday morning through Sunday evening, if anyone reading this would be interested in hooking up to meet. Take care ... |
^^^  Hi, joeind ... I just checked the amp. It now has 1744 hours on it from new. I'm a long way from re-tubing, but when I do, I have a spare set of KT-150's that I pulled out of my REF-75 before I sold it. They have, maybe, a total of 250 hours on them. I sold the old amp with a good set of KT-120's. I'm more than happy with this amp. Here's the deal ... everything I posted in this thread has been improved dramatically. If you have either a REF-75 or the SE version, I highly recommend that you swap out the stock fuse for a Synergistic Research Black fuse. http://highend-electronics.com/products/synergistic-research-black-quantum-fuses You will need a large  5 amp slow blow. What I thought was a grain-less amp, has become something that lives in another stratosphere with the fuse change. Its simply amazing. Take care ... |
OK, I've now reached the 230 hour mark. The amp is really coming into its own at this point. The clarity has remained about the same from the 100 hour mark to this point, but what is so striking at this 230 hour mark is the improvement in soundstage width and depth. Honestly, after the amp is on for two hours its really amazing ... but at four hours, the music just seems to wrap around the entire room. I'm lucky enough to have a number of CD's that were burned from master tapes. The "YOU ARE THERE" presentation from the SE version of the REF-75 is something that I never thought could be gotten from home audio. But then ... there are those great recordings on vinyl. Even better! Recordings for this post: 1. Chico Hamilton Quintet: http://www.ebay.com/itm/CHICO-HAMILTON-QUINTET-lp-SELF-TITLED-1225-NM-PACIFIC-JAZZ-DG-MONO-/221766481121?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33a24ff4e1 Pearl Bailey: http://www.ebay.com/itm/PEARL-BAILEY-PEARLS-PEARLS-LP-125-/321758810611?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aea51d1f3 Erica Morini: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ERICA-MORINI-tchaikovsky-violin-concerto-LP-VG-XWN-18397-Westminster-Mono-/351036099874?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51bb61cd22 This is the mono version. The stereo LP is extremely hard to find, and very expensive when you do find it. Its available on CD though. Lovin' my music collection like never before thanks to the ARC REF-75 SE. |
Dweller ... I'm sure the REF-5se is much better than the REF-3 that now resides in my system. For now, it will have to do. I forget the brand of Scotch Bob brought over, but man, was it good. Nice and peaty. One you should try is Glenfarclas. Nice step up from Mcallan. I'm more of a bourbon man now ... but Scotch used to be my favorite. Hadn't had any for years until Bob brought over his bottle. Like they say in Southern California ... delicioso! By the way guyz ... if you want a stereo sound stage spectacular, buy this record. Throw it on the turntable and crank up the sound. It fills the entire room ... wall to wall and floor to ceiling. Also available on CD: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Strong-NM-copy-of-New-Age-artist-Andreas-Vollenweiders-1984-White-Winds-LP-/181732912680?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a50202e28 Happy listening ... |
My pleasure, Bob. I wish you could have stayed longer. There's something magical that happens when the new amp is on at the three hour point. I continued listening after you left, and wow ... just wow. I'm looking forward to hearing your system. I love Venture speakers. By the way ... that Scotch was killer. |
Oregonpapa: Thanks for the invite and music session tonight at your place. I was very impressed with how thoughtful your set up is...all the little things matter. Your quality rig of mostly AR gear was very synergistic. I loved the musicality of the CD and digital, but when you played those classic old LP's...wow, I was transported back in time. I was in awe of the depth of your sound stage, and the retrieval of low level resolution was stunning. On CD's I was familiar with, your rig clearly had a different flavor than my rig...two versions of the same truth. Thanks for your friendship, and listening session. I love this about the Gone how we can connect and make new friends. You are a tremendous benefit to the 'Gon community...you have no bones or special agenda, and want to help us all max out our system's benefits, and optimize our experience. I appreciate your time and talent. Looking forward to being able to reciprocate shortly, and have you over to my place. Best, Bob |
I'm up to 170 hours on the new amp now. It continues to improve. Last night I put on a sound stage spectacular. Here's a promo copy for sale on Ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ANDREAS-VOLLENWEIDER-White-Winds-Original-PROMO-LP-from-1984-CBS-FM-39963-/361281480275?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item541e0de653 The sound stage was from floor to ceiling and from wall to wall. I'd recommend this album to anyone who doesn't have it. On good recordings like this one, the sound flowing out of this amp just seems to wrap around you and immerses you in the music. Its like watching a Cinerama movie of sound. The only other time I've had a sound stage like this was back in the 80's with my Accustat Model 4's driven with 800 watts per channel of high quality solid state amps. Wow! Happy listening ... |
Thanks Bifynne, That used to happen with my old ARC VT-100 MKII power amp too. Back in the day I used to run my VT-100 with a PS Audio Power regenerator. Fortunately when a power tube went bad the power conditioner would shut down before the bias resister blew, so I was spared trekking my amp to the local ARC repair person As a relatively new owner of a Ref 75 (on its way to become a SE), I was hoping that ARC had taken care of this issue since their mid 90s designs like the VT-100 and VT-200. Like you, it's not the money as much as the unconvince of having to get it repaired. |
Rlf, no ... not exactly. What I am saying is that if and when a power tube goes arcs, it will usually take out one or more bias resisters. IME, arcing does not occur very often. Maybe once a year or every 18 months ... that's been my experience. Burning a bias resister is not a fault of the amp. It's just what happens with tube amps because that is what tubes do. Some amps have circuit breakers. The tube pops ... and you click the circuit breaker. ARC amps do not use circuit breakers. I once asked Len or Kal why so. They answered that it's ARC's design philosophy. ARC intentionally doesn't use circuit breakers because the ARC designers believe it adds an artifact to the circuit ... which ARC considers a negative. I can't speak to ARC's design philosophy. But as a consumer, I wish ARC could figure out a way to design a non-intrusive bias circuit breaker. I don't like dropping a hundred bucks to fix a burned bias resister and I don't like having my amp out of service for two or three days waiting on the tech. |
Bifwynne, Sorry I'm a little late to this thread, but on 4-9-2015 you stated: "The only issue I had ... and a minor one at that ... is burned bias resisters in my amp. And the cost to fix is minimal. There is a local authorized ARC service rep who lives near me and makes house calls. So, maybe once a year, I pay him a hundred bucks to stop by and he replaces the resister(s) and I'm back in business." Are you saying that once a year that your bias resistors are burned due to a power tube that goes bad? Thanks. |
Bifwynne ... You've mentioned your room abnormalities a few times. Have you considered the Shataki Holograms? Flimsy build quality, but the darned things really work. I have two pairs ...one pair against the front wall, and another pair right behind the listening position. The front pair made the most difference ... and it was night and day. The rear pair added about another 20-30% improvement. I've demonstrated them for friends by removing them and then putting them back in. They are all amazed at the improvement they make. I had my golden-eared friend "Robert" over for dinner and a listening session the night before last. In my next post, I'll be talking about a string trio recording that's a must have. Oh ... and some really fine single barrel bourbon as well. :>) Stay tuned ... the amp has 115 hours on it now. |
bifwynne ... It a terrific set. As I said previously, I was lucky to find a set from France in a used record store in Los Angeles (Aarons). I saw the American pressing for sale on Ebay the other day. Here it is .. I found it for you. Its $19.00. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Linda-Ronstadt-Round-Midnight-LP-3-Record-Box-Set-Asylum-Original-9-60489-1-LR-/111641226504?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19fe55ed08 The REF-75 SE has slightly over 100 hours on it now ... and its suburb. The soundstage continues to grow in every way. The realism is getting mind boggling. I've been playing CDs exclusively for the past week or so. I can honestly say that CDs played with the SE sound better than vinyl played on the stock REF-75 by far. That's really saying something. And by the way, I have it on good authority that several well respected reviewers have the new REF-SE's in hand. Their assessment? They all bought the amps. Here's the best CD of the night: Harry Connick, Jr's "Only You." If you like the old standard ballads, this one is for you for sure. I've listened to this CD quite a few times, but Connick's voice has never been so real and intimate before. Its funny, but I've never considered him to be that great of a singer. I just thought of him as kind of a Sinatra wanna be ... until I invited him into the listening room tonight. The REF-75 SE really allowed me to appreciate the wonderful instrument that Connick's voice truly is. His piano playing is very moving as well. The strings of the orchestra are not strident at all, just very lush ... as in live. Here's the CD: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Only-You-by-Harry-Connick-Jr-CD-Feb-2004-Columbia-USA-Box163-/321705663929?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ae726ddb9 I'm a fan. Stay tuned ... more updates on the amp, and more music recommendations to come. Happy listening ... |
Oregonpapa ... the 3 record set of Linda/Riddle appears to be a bit rare'ish. Just checked Amazon, eBay and Acoustic Sounds. I saw one record at Acoustic Sounds or eBay (can't remember now) for sale. I think it was a Japanese pressing which listed for $75. Any other suggestions?? Btw, I was able to listen to some internet live recordings of some of the songs from the set and they were really stellar. The word "classy" comes to mind. Well ... Linda Ronstadt was (is) a classy serious artist. We should be thankful for ... and Ms. Ronstadt deserves to be proud of ... the musical legacy she left for us to enjoy for years to come. |
Bifwynne ... That three record set of Linda Ronstadt/Nelson Riddle recordings I have were pressed in France. I was lucky to find it in a used record bin in a Los Angeles record store back in the day. I have all three records on American pressings as well. All of them are good recordings ... and as you know, the music is wonderful. As a point of interest, Linda and Nelson Riddle had a fourth album almost underway right before he passed away. I have Linda's Mexican music on vinyl as well. Living in Southern California, its easy to sucumb to the soul of Mexican music. I have a CD of a Mexican trio singing and playing guitars in a Mexican restaurant in Los Angeles that was recorded by a private party on a reel to reel tape that is to die for. Their singing and guitar playing is suburb. Also, if you like Mexican music, Some of the Bud & Travis albums are really good. Not great recordings, but the music almost makes you cry. This is the Bud & Travis album to buy: http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-VINYL-LP-Bud-and-Travis-In-Concert-Liberty-LDM-11001-1960-/191498051301?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c962c5ee5 Its a two record set. Their version of "Malaguena Salerosa" is worth the price of the entire album. Like I said, not the best recording, but its my favorite version of that beautiful song. No need to understand the language ... but hey, I don't speak Italian either ... and I have a lot of Puccini operas. :>) |
Tsushima1 ... no. Did not have any discussions with Kal about the fine print of the 1 year warranty. IMHO, I think ARC warranty discussions are bit of a capillary academic issue. Reason is that I own 4 ARC units: Ref 5 SE, Ref 150, CD-8 and PH-8. And NEVER ... NEVER had a serious problem with any unit. The only issue I had ... and a minor one at that ... is burned bias resisters in my amp. And the cost to fix is minimal. There is a local authorized ARC service rep who lives near me and makes house calls. So, maybe once a year, I pay him a hundred bucks to stop by and he replaces the resister(s) and I'm back in business. My biggest issue is bottlenecks in my room and speakers and shortage of Linda Ronstadt records. Cheers! |
Robot hands are still hands...that comment was unfair to robots everywhere. Morgans...I'll change my car reference to Morgans. And part of my discourse is based on my having listened to a ref75 (previously mentioned) with the disclaimer of it not being in my home system...no real issues with what certainly (based on reviews anyway) is fine kit, just musing about the cost relative to other well made and well performing less costly items. |
Not sure if this is relevant, but just an fyi. I've been in contact with Kal at ARC. I understand that the SE upgrade is now automatically built into the Ref 75, Ref 150 and Ref 250. The ARC website has been updated too. In short, the "regular" units are no longer part of ARC's product line. I wonder what will give with the Ref 750. With that beast, you don't need a home heater during winter. Hey ... call it an "SE upgrade" or the "Mark II" version. Either way, ARC is keeping its current offerings up to date. Ok, so my Ref 150 is at the factory now and is in the queue for the SE face lift. Kal said that it will be shipped back to me on a pallet. How the he*l am I going to take delivery??? So Herb1 and I will report back with comments as soon as we get our SE upgraded Ref 150s back. I don't have my hopes up too high because there are other bottlenecks in my system that will not go away unless I build a custom sound room. My DEQX PreMATE has tamed the worst parts of my speaker and room anomalies. But heck, it's an artifact stuck in between my Ref 5 SE and my Ref 150. IMO, not optimal, but necessary. Cheers. P.S. Oregonpapa, I bought the Linda Ronstadt CD which you might have recommended. This is the CD on which my gal sings Mexican music. I love her. Did you also mention that there is a three record set where she sings songs with the Nelson Riddle band? |
Wolf ... *lol* love the humor in your posts. I can tell you ... in fact I've been telling everyone in this thread that I can "feel" the new SE version of the REF-75. I don't care if the improvements in the SE version came about as a result of ARC sprinkling fairy dust on the caps and resistors ... the improvements are worth the money. Just my opinion of course, but why not take a listen for yourself? You may be surprised. As for my audiophile buddies, they will find a box of adult Pampers sitting by my entry door. They will be required to put three layers on prior to any future listening sessions at my place. Don't want stains on my carpet due to their over exuberance. I wonder if I can get away with charging admission? |
Wolf ... You hit it. Its market based. If McDonald's had lines around their establishments willing to pay $10.00 for a burger, they would be selling burgers for $10.00. Personally, I wouldn't pay fifty cents for a McDonald's burger. But In-N-Out, or The Habit? That's a different story. On the audio stuff ... ARC, like all businesses, is in business to make a profit. They do that by satisfying their customers. When push comes to shove, the customer is the boss that every ARC employee, from the receptionist who answers the phone, to the CEO of the company, must satisfy. From my understanding, ARC's business is doing fine in every market they serve. So ... that means that they are satisfying "The Boss," no? Evidently, based upon world-wide sales, ARC's customers have the perception that they are receiving value for the money spent. Therefore, can we conclude that your's is an opinion of one, that is not reflected in ARC's customers? By the way, try that Bonfigleo CD I recommended. Its really an amazing recording. I wish all recording were done like this one. |
Again, there is no point around here not worth missing, or analogy worth ignoring. New ARC amps are not the same as collectable guitars...that's a collecting market and as a professional guitar player for decades I understand it. Ferraris are handmade by a relatively small company and produced in small amounts and won't ever compete with the GM Corvettes regarding pricing...they're simply way cheaper to produce, and Porsche Turbos simply perform to a standard and have a feel that can be considered unique. Don't misunderstand my point...I like ARC amps mostly, but I still question the costs even if "trickle down" technology is considered...there is no ground breaking new technology in their new amps as far as I can see, and the pricing is simply what their market will tolerate. |
Dbarger ... No doubt, the REF-5se is a considerable jump over the REF-3. Not so, the REF-5. Even if the REF-5se is better than what I have, and I'm sure it is, I'm holding off until ARC comes out with a new line stage that takes advantage of that "trickle down" effect. In other words, I want my next preamp to have a lot of that technology that the two-box 30k line stage has. Will ARC do it? Who knows, but if history is the benchmark, they may. Taters ... The hedge against inflation is the fact that if the monetary system were based upon 100% gold backing, the only way for government to create another dollar would be if another dollar's worth of gold were to be dug out of the ground. Did you read the Alan Greenspan essay I posted? If not, please take the time to read it. I's pretty amazing and really informative. Dweller ... I loved your "Hours and Minutes". analogy. Very interesting. It brings up another point ... and that is the popularity of raising the minimum wage without the worker improving his/her efficiency, skill level or production quantity. Its feelgoodism ... and someone is going to have to pay for the difference .. namely, the consumer. Another hidden tax?? Back to the REF-75se. 75 hours on the amp now, and its breaking in nicely with even more musicality, presence and expansive sound staging. I love harmonica music (don't laugh). There's a CD that those who love great recordings should try to find. Its Robert Bonfigleo live in concert at the Grand Canyon. This is a wonderful recording with a "you are there" presence. Jazz and blues. This is what you'll be looking for: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Live-at-the-Grand-Canyon-by-Robert-Bonfiglio-CD-1994-High-Harmony-b213-/321699745675?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ae6cc8f8b I know this recording very well. Bonfigleo is one of the world's premier harmonica & chromonica players. He's amazing. The REF-75SE makes this recording come alive like never before. I listened to the entire concert tonight .. and couldn't tear myself away from it. The SE upgrade to the REF-75 has brought my entire music collection to life like never before. And, it gets better after it hits 300 hours? Wow! Happy listening ... :>) |
Oregonpapa, thanks very much for your comments. For myself, I can't help think thinking you should consider finding a Ref5se when you see one available. As one who who seems to appreciate the musicality of products I believe you would have a similar or greater appreciation of the improvements made over the Ref3. I am NOT second guessing your upgrade decision but would be remiss in not mentioning that this upgrade (used) would likely be similar in cost and should probably also be considered. The Ref5se is also a very serious upgrade over the Ref3. |
Yes "Dollars and Cents" is an arbitrary illusion. The only "Real" currency is "Hours and Minutes". How many hours and minutes (of your one-and-only life) will it take to purchase what you want? Apply this to purchases made 20 years ago and you'll probably find it took longer that it would today. Hard to grasp but very "real". |
Oregonpapa, I have a bit of an argument with you. If the gold prices were adjusted for inflation the price would be 3000.00. Gold is currently trading at 1200.00. Gold is down 35 percent from it's recent highs. Sure if you got out at 1800.00 an ounce you would of made a ton of money. But most gold bugs don't sell. They say they buy gold as a hedge against inflation. Well if that is the case it's not working very well at the moment. I think the big traders that flip a lot of gold stocks make most of the money in the market. The buy and hold guys, not so much. |