Recommendations please for good, affordable pre-amp for system?


Hi All, 

I'm configuring my first system, and have so far acquired the speakers (Thiel 3.6) and amp (Bryston 4B SST). I believe I need a preamp to complete this (and I believe only a preamp, right?). And I'm hoping you can give me some leads, information, and recommendations.  It's a 2-channel setup, and while it would be nice to add some HT capability in the future, I'm seeking as pure a sound as possible.

Some things I've looked at are Theta Casablanca, Bryston 0.5B, and perhaps for future upgrades, model Rotel RSP-1582 and Marantz AVR8802 -- although I'm concerned that those latter two, while brining nice features, will work to molest the signal.

Prime listening will be CD, with some lossless Network-attached storage, and Airplay with Tidal or otherwise Internet radio.

Thanks for your recommendations!
donzi

Showing 12 responses by donzi

Topten, what is the difference between active and passive? And can tube be used with a SS amp? What would be the info, or link for this one? 

Sorry. Newbie in all of this. I actually don't know. Budget is perhaps $500 on down for real quality, and I would like a lot cheaper than that. And yes, on a search, I found some for $18k, which is what sent me here. 

My amp is solid state, so I would presume the preamp should be as well, right? I've been recommended to seek something with "HT passthrough/ HT bypass", as I ultimately might like to hook up an HT system (while still keeping the quality of sound on the fronts for CD, and Network Storage, etc. Can you combine tubes and SS? Remote is not so important on this unit as it will be, ultimately on the future HT. Those features would be nice, to turn on home sound from app and the like. But meanwhile, I'll plan to get up and push buttons. Though perhaps, on that day, if this has some sort of power on that can be controlled by another unit, that would be bonus. Thanks!
Thanks Oddiofyi, great counsel. I have seen that unit on the web, and have it in my consideration/watch list. :)  I will gratefully check out the McCormack, another name I've heard several times now, but haven't looked into. Thanks!
Mesch, would I understand you to be saying that perhaps (budget reasons) start with something temporary, but be prepared to a significantly higher outlay in the future? I would guess this is what I hear. If I went that jump now, any recommendations?

Jmcgrogan, I’m a little uncertain also with what you’re saying. If you’d said <$500 paired with more expensive amp being strange, that would make sense. Can you clarify, please? And the comment about this perhaps being more difficult of a search than speakers, really sticks. Perhaps again, something reasonable now, and then use a future time to audition various components. And, by that time, I’ll likely develop a better ear as well, to be able to decide what I like and now.

Yogiboy, I had seen that on Parasound’s website, but I’m not sure how that compares to the 2100 that I had seen. Lesser, greater quality? I did seem to remember only the 2100 had HT passthrough, which is of some importance to me.

Pani, I did a google for this, and came up with Passdiy.com -- wow. Mind blower. I can’t figure all of this out, but am I understanding that Nelson Pass has built in a set of pages to help you to build your own?! Now that would be intriguing! Like the old Heathkits. I’d be totally in on doing this, and have a blast to do it. Heathkit came and went before I ever had the ability to try any of their projects, but always wanted to do it. I’m sure you were suggesting a unit made by Pass already, although I need to continue to search to find it. It would almost be very cool to have a cabinet full of equipment, with this one device being a circuit board, all bare wired and home soldered, that’s controlling the whole thing. Yeah, I built that. (I recently made a home coffee bean roaster from an old bread machine, by analyzing and selectively employing the circuit board. <grin>)
Thanks all! I've gotten a great deal from this group, and am grateful. OK, for the either now or future route, if reasonable money weren't an object, are there any additional recommendations? Michael, I am SO intrigued by the tube preamp kits. Where would, say, the 300B rank with other manufactured gear? Believe it or not, I was thinking yesterday that surely the information is out there to grab a schematic and build my own. All the better, already in kit form. This is almost a surety to try this, although I risk a grand, without having the ability to audition in, and decide if I like it. Even so, it's less than some other options that I also wouldn't audition.

You had mentioned Parasound. What about Halo P3?

And if I do sell the Bryston, what would you recommend for Integrated? And if I go the tube route, is this still your recommendation? Thanks!
Would this Dared 2a3c one be amp or preamp? And this Bottlehead BeePre 300B is preamp, right? If they are both pre's, I wonder how they compare? 
The Bottleneck thing really has my attention, and I would seriously consider that model. Compatible with the Thiels and Brystons, do you think? It's got three inputs, though, I and really need four. Can one pigtail the lesser two quality components and get away with this? And second question, might it be possible to add a set of RCA's and go directly to speaker output, to create my own HT passthrough? Or does that kind of thing really screw with the whole design?
I'm reading that the imput impedance of the Brystons is 50k/20k for direct/balanced. That BeePre output is 500/1000 for direct/balanced. So it would seem that (using what I read as a 10x factor) it would be acceptable for either with a computed minimum of 5k/10k amp input -- so on that count, if I both understand and do the computation correctly, the Brystons would work. (?)

And finally (wow, the questions never end), what's the wisdom on Balanced vs. Direct end? 

There are a couple of low end Bryston pre's that I'm looking at, such as this 0.5B. Would this be too low end? Or do you suspect that this actually would be a good match as you're suggesting? And if not, which are the ones you might suggest?

My room is about 27 x 37 x 9, with rug, combined dining room/living room. So the listening half is the right half of that space, with the listening area about halfway back. So large-ish, it would seem, for power needs. 
For any who may be interested, I got this preamp via auction. It's at least a good start, and may serve me for a decent point into the future. I am still highly interested in the possibility of building a tube pre, particularly in light of the discussion as to the clarity/sharpness of both the Thiels and Brystons. (Bryston, btw, was the brand that the current Thiel people recommended when I contacted them. So, in all events, I think I have all the parts now, and we shall see.) I'm actually excited about getting this all plugged in now, particularly after reading an old review on Thiel last night.

I'm still curious for the thoughts on the Bottlehead, and that specific model and how it might rank relative to others. And for the thoughts on Direct end vs Balanced, as I now need to cable the whole thing. And on that count, what do you collectively think of Monoprice as a cable source? 7mm solid copper.
Thanks hanfrac, Nice unit! I found it interesting that you felt the sound better out of this Bryston than a tube preamp. I had understood that tube usually added warmth to the system (a bit of a concern for me, as both my speakers and amp are known to be "accurate".) I ended up getting this unit, but had a bid in on a Bryston 0.5B. I didn't chase it aggressively, as I knew that preamp was already on the way. But, especially in light of all of that, your experiences are fascinating. 

Part of the reason I went with Bryston is that this is what the people at Thiel recommended for those speakers when I called them. For sure, this is all subjective, but as a new member of audio, I figured theirs was good advice to get. But then again, I'm told that they're both bright.

Another preamp I'm considering is this one, based on a recommendation earlier here. For sure, this is a future upgrade; but the idea of building my own simply fascinates me. --And, I was hoping, the tubes would add warmth. Perhaps not always, based on your experience. And perhaps as the Thiel rep said, Bryston/Bryston might be the way to go with amp and pre. Bright + bright + bright. Who knows, maybe that's the way it was designed to be.

I just picked up the speakers yesterday, and none of the rest of the stuff is here yet. So I'm anxious to plug it all together and see what I have -- and begin the process of hearing and listening. And perhaps, fine tuning as time goes on. Someone else here also said some wonderful advice, that, in his opinion, the preamp was a harder purchase than the speakers. Certainly this is not something that I can chase with continual purchases to try it. So, thanks again for the recommendations and thoughts!
But not BP 0.5 or BP 1, I would presume? Good info. Would you imagine that staying within a brand is generally a better, more compatible way to go, in terms that they know what they're trying to achieve end-to-end?
@jond , if you scroll down, you'll see the details below the top stuff. 

I like the thought, expressed here I earlier think, that buying the preamp is as hard as the speakers. Surprisingly to me, although budget is not unlimited, I find myself a little bit expecting a process of buy-play-try. I anticipate, as long as I keep to auction and used, I can try, and recycle, and not get hurt too badly. Although surely the best is to find a local dealer who can demo this element is best, I think that's going to be hard in my area.

I expect to receive amp and pre within a few days. I'm looking forward to plugging this in and beginning this new life of audio!
Thanks all, for all your thoughtful and detailed comments. It's incredibly helpful, and I've started a new bookmark folder just for these suggestions. A world of information here! Thanks a ton!