Recievers versus separates


Although I have read seemingly thousands of articles stating that high end receivers such as the B&K 202/307 and the Denon 5800 are as "good as separates," which separates are they as good as? Can can someone compare the sound of these to an Outlaw amp, a Proceed AMP5, a Bryston 9BST, a Sunfire Cinema Grand, or any other amp in the $1000-$5000 range. Does a $3000 receiver get close enough to these to make the difference incremental, and are we just paying a higher profit margin for separates such as the ones listed above.
eyeman

Showing 2 responses by kjg

I don't have direct experience with all of the pieces you mention, but I can comment about the "good as separates" claim. Its no trick to build similar circuitry into one box as opposed to two, and many better receiver manufacturers do exactly this. However, there are some important pitfalls to single box design that are difficult to overcome. Typically, a receiver will use a single power supply to drive both channels, instead of individual supplies for each channel. Splitting the power generally means providing less to each channel, so the each side sweats a bit more when the amp is driven hard (which doesn't necessarily mean loud -- transients in the music at normal volumes are a strain on the amp). Bigger is nearly always better when it come to power supplies. Secondly, a single box design will suffer from crosstalk between the channels, which is a source of distortion and reduces separation by some degree. The technical issues here have long since drifted from memory and I could be wrong here, so perhaps some of the more knowledgeable folks can step in to correct me on this.

All that said, there is no reason that a great receiver can't be produced (and many have been), but the claim that is as good as separates is likely to be more of a marketing issue than it is an audio or technical one. Putting the same circuitry into separate boxes will nearly always show benefits. As for comparing apples to oranges (Bryston separates to a Denon receiver for example), folks are free to say whatever they want -- its entirely subjective.

Cheers,
Ken
I have to apologize for my last post -- somehow I was stuck on thinking that "separates" meant monoblocks and described what I saw as the difference between stereo and mono amps. I'm should know better than to try and think before noon. Anyway, I believe that the power supply arguments apply to pretty much any piece of audio gear, but I'm not sure I can place my finger on the specific technical differnce between a receiver and separate preamp/amp.

However, as mentioned by others, I've always found the sound of separates to be somewhat finer than that of a comparable quality receiver. Perhaps its the need for each component to stand on its own against others of its kind that causes the manufacturers to put a bit more effort into designing and producing them. Maybe its that folks are willing to pay more for separates that enables them to be of generally higher quality (at the very least, two power supplies rather than just one). Or maybe its just all in my head. In any case, if you have the opportunity to listen to comparable systems of both types, it might be worth the effort to see if the marketing blurb is real, or just hype.

Cheers,
Ken