Obviously in the vast majority of cases, they don't like it in their system.Not a valid assumption.
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I sell stuff for a variety of reasons, but usually because I'm simply wanting to try something else. Every now and then I try something that I think is particularly appealing for one reason or another and keep it. The component may or may not even be used in my system, but as my system changes, I may have a use for it. If you do that enough times, you end up needing to thin the herd of components that aren't likely to be used, especially if you decide to change directions.
And then there are those components that you try because of all the favorable reviews and opinions, only to find out that other people's opinions are of little value if your own hierarchy of audio reproduction differs from theirs.
I think most seasoned audiophiles can appreciate the sonic strengths of components even if those strengths do not rank high enough in their own pecking order to find a place in their system. What I find to be personally unacceptable very likely differs from what someone else may find to be unacceptable in getting each of us closer to what we perceive is "live" and "real."
How many times have you tried a new component and got that "wow" impression because of its ability to surpass a previous component in a certain aspect, only to conclude some time later that it was unable to equal the previous component in some other area of reproduction, leaving you with the need to decide which area is more important to your enjoyment of listening?
I think most all of us reach a point where we learn to find the balance of strengths and weaknesses of a combinatiion of variables and that has to differ from one system and one pair of ears to the next.
Telling prospective buyers you really found it for $29 at a Goodwill Store, and are selling it for $3,500. usually does not work.
Ditto for finding it at a Estate sale same thing..
My favorites are the folks who buy stuff, and are trying to sell it as new after owning it for a year or two, claiming they never used it, and are selling it because they had a change in plans.
that one is so common...
Often stuff is not bad, at least that which is listed in true condition. Reason for selling for many and saying as much may simply be the truth. There are some who would like to know. Stating so is no more than what you may certainly do if you were selling to a friend. Perhaps as I, naively feeling a certain kinship with other audiogoner's.
For me at least, half the fun of this hobby is arguing with myself over what to do and/or what I should have done. For example, I was perfectly happy with my loom of Kubala-Sosna cables. So what did I do, I sold all but one of them. Now Im back in the hunt to create another loom maybe or maybe not Audience. So, when you see my ad to sell my Kubala XLR Emotion and Nordost Frey RCA interconnects, know that Im selling them just to have a little fun.
As to what I should have done, I should have grabbed the YG Carmels that magically appeared on AudiogoN over the weekend but instead I sat back to ponder the WAF and someone grabbed them. Such is life.
If I saw an item from a private seller, the last thing I would think is that it didn't sound good in their system and they don't like it.
At the time they bought it, it sounded fabulous and they loved it!!!
Time goes on, and you simply outgrow it, get bored with it and want to try something different in the never ending quest to improve your system. Its called upgrading. Certainly no seller conspiracy to unload lousy peforming equipment.
I'll bet the OP has the most killer vintage system in the world!
*Look, just assume buyers aren't stupid* (Glaucon)
"Why are you selling" is one of the biggest (& dumbest, IMO) questions. I don't know what buyers are trying to accomplish with that: Hoping that the seller will blurt out; "It's a horrible POS", or: "the transmission in my used car is stuffed full of bananas"?
The 2nd annoying question is: a one sentence e-mail "Is it still available"? Those people are invariably tire-kickers I've found--their question is literal--they have no interest in buying it, they just want to know..... "Is it still available"?
I don't mind if someone wants to know why I am selling. Many times, I list the reason in my add. Historically, I have been pretty careful about what I buy, so I usually hold on to stuff for 2-4 years before reselling. I don't think it is an unreasonable question for someone to ask me. I will provide an answer, and it won't be a lie. Other people are pretty much constantly rotating new stuff into their systems. If a guy has 300 transactions over the last 5 years, asking him is pointless. Clearly, he rotates a lot of stuff in and out.
I do want to know why the seller is selling the equipment. If they lie, then that is on them later. But, if the equipment is faulty or damaged, then I would want to know that before purchasing. Don't you ask the same question to people selling used cars? Sometimes the answers actually do give you an idea of how the seller has taken care of (or not) the equipment. The more questions you ask, the more information you gain. It is inherently stupid to purchase anything (especially expensive equipment or cars) and not ask as many questions as you can up-front). It really doesn't hurt to ask and people that don't give straight forward answers are the ones that I avoid right away. I want to know why you are selling it. Did you fry the amp and the heat sinks are now orange from heat? Most people are honest and will say they are having financial issues, divorce or the equipment has been sitting for some time and they simply want to clear it out. Others will say they are are up grading. Remember, there is always something out there that is better than what you have, so naturally, people upgrade. But, the more questions asked up-front the better and asking why the seller is selling is not a bad question.
The problem I find I have buying expensive high end audio products used is not knowing for certain that a product is truly performing up to specifications as it should. That is what you are paying for, however good sounding gear might not perform as designed yet still sound OK. How to verify validate something sounds as it should, short of hearing some kind of obvious noise or distortion?
The most expensive used piece I ever bought on Audiogon sounded fine for over a year when I got it, then one day it developed a clear audible problem. The vendor determined there was a circuit board inside that had its foil largely separated. Luckily it was replaced promptly for very reasonable cost. Was there a prblem when I bought it that took a year to fully develop? Dunno. But I learned from that experience to not be afraid of asking questions up front when many dollars are involved. If a seller does not understand and cooperate, I will find another seller.
Most of us have been sellers from time to time and I buy to try. It is not necessary to list the reason for the sale, it only diminshes your credibility because first nobody cares, second the piece should sell based on its own merit and finally if I'm interested I'm just very happy that you put it up for sale. Even if we assume the product is inferior just because it has been put up for sale, that assumption should be quickly dismissed based on the fact that most experienced audiophiles know that it comes down to system compatibilty but it could possibly excel in someone elses system. One mans trash is another mans gold mine.
I have sold in the past and in most cases it wasn't because I didn't like it in my system but at the time Audiogon was an excellent site to sample many products over the years and if your curiosity was sparked about something else it wasn't all that difficult to turn gear over. I lost very little money doing this and more importantly it was alot of fun. In todays economy one might want to do more research before buying because reselling could prove to be more difficult.
I'm the OP, and I certainly didn't mean to start a flame. I fully expected, making what I thought was an obvious point, that buyers would nod and move on, and that sellers would at least pause and consider my point. (I also fully expected posts from people who (1) can't read; (2) can't write, and (3) can't think; so thanks guys for not letting me down in that regard).
I was simply making the point that Audiogon transactions are just like buying used cars. There's a radical asymmetry of information between buyer and seller. The seller has a significant information advantage over the buyer; just wait until cars from NY and NJ start showing up in used car lots. That being so, it seems to add insult to ignorance to give a reason for the sale, since buyers have no independent reason to believe it, and every reason to doubt it (i.e. the seller is trying to make a sale after all).
However, I do stand corrected by the good folk here who claim to be trying to be helpful and upfront - I'm sure you are. But, no offense, why should anyone believe you who understood the transactional logic? Just disclose the item's true condition, and let the buyer make a decision without having to second guess your motives.
Those buyers who say they really want to know the reason for the sale: well, I really have nothing to say to you.
Happy buying, all!
I guess it depends on how you view the whole transactional process here between fellow members. I probably would not have a transaction with you based on your point of view. I view this site as a way for me to improve my system and try different equipment without taking any significant financial loss on a change of components.
Along the way I have had interesting discussions and transactions with other like minded hobbyists. I want to talk to the person selling and ask them why they are selling in order to figure out what they are about. I may have talked to some that were intentionally deceitful and succeeded in deceiving me along the way.
I may be wrong, but I hope you are far off the mark in comparing what is going on here to buying and selling used cars.
I do it just to show someone that said I couldn't that I can. For instance my wife says I can't sell my dog. So right now I have a 2005 pure bred boxer for sale. It is a one owner and has all the upgrades you can possibly have. I have kept it in a smoke free, kid free home. Yea I don't sell that stuff, I give all the smoke and kids away for free. Also because I know you will say you can't sell that it is mine, I am the guy that lists an item that you might you have for sale on the 'gon here a few lines above yours at a slightly higher price. Even though you won't take low ball offers I will. I do it because I can.
*The seller has a significant information advantage over the buyer; just wait until cars from NY and NJ start showing up in used car lots. That being so, it seems to add insult to ignorance to give a reason for the sale, since buyers have no independent reason to believe it, and every reason to doubt it (i.e. the seller is trying to make a sale after all)*
There's a whole lot of truth in what you're saying, & why I think it's so useless to ask "why are you selling". Buyers IMO should be asking about the condition, history, any damage, etc. But it seems a lot of buyers think the way to ascertain all that is to ask "why are you selling".
I don't think I've ever asked that as a buyer, but for sellers who've been asked "why are you selling" dozens of times, it's just way easier to address that in the listing. So I don't see sellers as being in the wrong for listing that; I just think buyers who think asking that is the most crucial thing to ask are off-base......
Marqmike, I never thought about that. From now on, when I see something I want to buy, I'll post a fake for sale ad with the equipment I'm trying to buy, only it will be at a lower price. I'll then wait a day or two, mark it sold then bid on the other item that's still for sale, stating that there was an identical item for sale for less but it sold already, so will you take "x" amount since that's what "the other guy" was asking. Genius!!
One thing I think I notice is that people on this site tend to ask too high a price for gear that is clearly in lesser condition, like speakers with significant dings in cabinets, etc. Its like you pay a lot for this high end stuff and value (% of cost if new) should still be there even if in lesser condition just because it is "high end".
Makes me wonder how often this happens for gear in similar lesser condition, electronically perhaps, or only subtly apparent when listening. but nothing clearly apparent visually to indicate this? Gotta wonder. I would expect selling such gear on audiogon rather than on ebay at auction might carry a premium and benefit the seller, while the buyer pays more here for something that clearly has less value if put up for auction on Ebay.
I wonder how many buy gear like this on the cheap regularly on ebay then sell here to make a profit? Its gotta happen! That's why a buyer should always ask questions and avoid sellers that discourage the same.
B-Limo I am here to enlighten and help, and to take advantage of the unsuspecting person. Hope you have as much fun as I do doing it!! Unfortunately in my trying to be funny, thinking about it, somebody with internet and sales skills and whatever else is needed just might do this. So whoever you are and you get good at it let us all know here at the 'gon so we can start doing it too.
Mapman I have noticed that a lot of people think their stuff can be sold for what a brick and mortar place would sell it for, and they don't have the investment of a b & m store. I think a lot(not most) of the items for sale here are roughly priced 25% to high. There are bluebooks on audio equip.
For many if not most audiophiles (but they will never admit it) this hobby is about OWNERSHIP.
Most modern solid state gear and tube gear sound fine.
But the flavor-of-the-month or upgraditis desease (or should we call it the itching to just change and try new stuff) is a pretty strong excuse to get rid of the gear.
The zillion matching possibilities of amps-preamps-dac-cable-power conditioner-digital source-tonearm-cartrige combinations (not mentioning the ROOM) is both an endless and futile maze that enduces endless over-analysis of ''sounds'' (you know, looking for ''air'' around the instrumenst) further push us away from the simple enjoyement of listening to our favorite artists.
This site is about AUDIO GEAR ownnership, and it is just normal that people get rid of fine equipment almost as fast as they purchase it. It is in the genes of the audiophile. No use mentioning or even finding out reasons for selling.
Ad to this the ridiculous ways the audio reviewers talk about those toys in audio rags, lending ''personalities'' to amplifiers and speakers, as if they were living people that we should pamper more that our own children, and this hobby is nothing short of a well-choreographed purchase-inducing lust money pit.
But it sure all is fun right?
Now, tell me I haven't figured this hobby out !
I've followed Audigon regularly since becoming a member back in '99. Yes, some people have something to hide or just didnt like the way the component sounded in their system. But seems to me a lot of people here have some discretionary income available and are just in the amp/speaker/cable (etc.) of the Month Club. They just love trying out stuff, and you know what George Carlin said about stuff.