Raven Blackhawk LE... am I going to be disappointed?

Have never heard that I know of but  looks like a very good deal and more good power never hurts.

Seems like @b_limo is enjoying trying all these things out. Not sure he really wants to cut to the chase, assuming he knows what it is he is seeking prior to hearing it. Can’t blame him. New toys are fun! I’d play more myself if I had the time.

That sub out thing with the Blackhawk is strange. Would like to hear from the vendor if that is by design or something else. Agree I would not want a unit designed with a fixed level output to a sub. That sounds like design flaw which makes me wonder. WIth that out put and the high pass filter feature, sounds like they tried to make the amp integrate flexibly with subs out of the box by design but failed due to that.

Tektons after beautifully crafted Salks? I don’t think I could do it but you never know what might float one’s boat.  

I see a Raven Blackhawk on TMR website tonight in case any interest.

Yes it’s easier with high efficiency speakers because your choices will be limited.   Not necessarily better but a different way to roll. 
The facts speak for themselves.  High efficiency speakers are a niche for a reason. That is because to be efficient and full range they have to be large and often expensive,  things most do not want these days.  Also Tekton is not really high efficiency though more efficient than many. Klipsch heritage line designed a long time ago when only tube amps were available are.   There are others but again very large and very expensive.  
So really the “high efficiency” solution being pitched is not even high efficiency compared to others that are like the Avantgardes of the world. More like somewhat higher efficiency.  Which is fine if that fits the bill.  Add a sub and crossover like with many  and no problem. 

My personal recipe for good sound is based on speakers first. No secret I am a fan of wide dispersion speakers particularly omnidirectional speakers like mbl.

In my case, the key ingredient is still the Ohm Walsh speakers that are designed to work well for omnis in most peoples actual rooms. So I build around that.

I use high power high current Class D amps that do the job of driving Ohms to the nth degree. Throwing the kitchen sink amp-wise at speakers is much more practical and cost effective these days with advances in amplifier (not speaker) efficiency, mainly Class D.

CLass D and Ohms are a match many have found to be heaven made.

High efficiency amp technology takes one in a totally different direction than high efficiency speakers. It’s the wave of the future. It allows amp and speakers to be smaller and hence work better for more. Whereas large full range high efficiency speakers are the opposite, although as mentioned powered subs that almost always apply Class D amplifier technology these days helps even out the battlefield.

Of course most Class D amps have very high Damping factor that can make many smaller speakers tend to sound thinner or dry than tube amps which typically have low Damping factor.    So not all will take to the sound in all cases.   Just like anything else.   Though I do also run a pair of small Kef ls50 metas  (also measured as having very good dispersion for a box design) off the same CLass D amps as my big Ohms with the 12" main Walsh driver and the sound is to die for, especially with CLass D powered sub added.

Well it seems like B is enjoying the journey including the various detours along the way so that is all that matters.

Yes as anyone with eyes and ears will learn over time there are many ways to skin the cat, each with their associated advantages and disadvantages.

Do note though that high efficiency alone does NOT, repeat NOT, assure optimum performance with any amp. It only means things are most likely to be loud enough with most any amp in most any room in peoples homes.

Reviews of high efficiency speakers with measurements have shown that high efficiency speakers are subject to the same kinds of load issues at various frequencies as low efficiency speakers to the extent that tonality can vary significantly still amp to amp. So it may pay to be aware that high efficiency alone does NOT assure optimal performance as designed. An easy load still matters. You can have the ability to go loud and still never have the desire to actually do it. Some may simply have no need...more modest volumes may suffice.

Also, good quality full range high efficiency speakers tend to be large and expensive. There are much fewer options to choose from. That is a big downside for those to whom it might matter.

But, if you filter the bass from the mains and use a sub to carry the load, that effectively makes you speakers MORE efficient than they were otherwise because producing flat and extended bass response is where most of the work is. So a properly implemented crossover and sub greatly increases the choices for speakers to use with a lower power amp ....in fact most any speaker might be made to work well with a 20 watt soft clipping tube amp if enough of the work producing flat extended bass is offloaded elsewhere.

Even in the best case though, listening at levels > than mid 80s SPL regularly is scientifically proven to be bad for your hearing over time so best to avoid that as much as possible.

Also as always, of course YMMV. It pays to be aware of these things (efficiency, load/impedance/phase measurements at various frequencies) when matching speakers to amps in order to get to a synergistic combo faster and more cost effectively. These are specifications/measurements that truly matter, but of course you still never know for sure exactly what will float one’s boat exactly for sure until you try. While good performance can be predicted, good sound is largely always still in the ear of the listener. That part of it is very hard to quantify. Good specs/measurements merely helps assure that more people will be able to achieve some degree of optimal performance faster and easier and along with that chances go up that the sound will be deemed "good" by more.

Of course price alone can often be the best spec/indicator to predict what people will think sounds good. People are funny that way....but its true.

It’s not just sensitivity but load. Easy load means more mileage out of however many watts. That’s the forte of the not particularly sensitive Fritz that makes them a more viable choice than most stand monitors for use with most tube amps.

I’m still confused about the sub out on the Raven. Would be a show stopper for me as described. Fixed level means sub level is the same at all volumes of the mains regardless of how the sub is adjusted. You want the sub level to go up and down with volume just like the mains. Raven product manual online offers no insight on how the sub output works only the filter adjustment.

Well unfortunately  I guess anyone who correctly answered the OP would be disappointed with the combo gets to take a victory lap now.

@b_limo so what was the final assessment of the 20 watt Raven with the Salks? What was lacking? It went from sounds good and loud enough to Salks for sale pretty quickly. Not a great match on paper so not shocked but would like to know your thoughts.

Yes likely not getting the most out of the speakers but if you like the amp enough that can certainly help make up for that to a certain extent.

One would expect more heat in general when the amp is working harder or playing louder and/or full range  into a tougher load.

That does sound strange if the sub output level is truly fixed and not variable.  Too bad if so in that the built in high pass filter to the mains for use with a sub sounds like a nice feature to use with a sub. 

Well let’s just say one would hope a 20 watt amplifier that costs $3500 would deliver some goods within its limits in order to compete at that price. High efficiency speakers only would be a pretty limiting consideration. The built in crossover for use with a powered sub is a nice feature. With that most any amp might be considered to  drive most speakers.

 Built in crossover in a low power integrated amp tube or otherwise is a very useful feature.  I wonder what other similar amps have that?

I’ve seen and heard some model Raven amps at shows but in lieu of having really heard one enough to assess, having the built in crossover feature for offloading work to a separate powered sub alone is a very practical feature for a tube integrated amp in general so Raven gets some points for that feature alone.

If the amp offloads the heavy lowest octaves bass work to the sub as it sounds like it is designed to do you should be in good shape.
Offloading bass to a sub opens up many new possibilities with lower power tube amps for reasons discussed above. . It takes way fewer watts to achieve a higher Spl when the low bass frequencies are excluded. Heck any good quality table radio with limited bass extension is a good example. Plenty loud in most cases.

No lack of current from tube amps to drive more difficult loads well is fact not narrative. How it sounds in terms of bloom and other subjective terms IS pure narrative. It may sound nice but could sound better with better dynamics and less distortion if speakers are driven well. Not to say everyone will like better more. Better is better. What one likes is totally subjective which is fine. Lots of people like junk food but you can do much better.

Several different 50-60 watt tube amps run with different speakers produced bass at least as good as 150-200 watt solid state amps.

Sorry but BS alert.

A watt is a watt unless the specs are juiced differently.

Soft clipping makes X # watts seem to go further because peaks get clipped in a listenable manner. But 50-60 watts is equivalent to only 50-60 watts period no matter how produced. It may sound fine subjectively but it is NOT, repeat NOT, the same as 150-200 in terms of dynamic peaks possible without distortion.

If you have a good combo of amp/speakers,  more power may be overkill at some point unless you have need for even louder potentially ear damaging dynamic peaks, but that is a different story.....just two different ways to effectively slay the beast.

@b_limo have you ever looked at the Rogue Cronus Magnum?  It’s a fine sounding and affordable tube integrated with enough oomph to drive most speakers to reasonable levels.  Highly recommended. 

A tube amp will soft clip so as long as you don’t need things too loud it should be fine.