So the scuttlbutt on the Raven integrated amps is pretty good. But just how good are they? Are they good when compared to other comparably priced tube integrateds? Or are they better than some heavy hitters?
I currently have a NOSvalves ST-45 amp paired with a Don Sachs Model 2 (latest version) preamp and I am extremely happy with this pairing. With that said, I guess there is nothing really that I'm looking to improve. But since we all know how this game goes, I just wonder how much better (or not) the Blackhawk III would be. Consolidating two pieces down to one chasis is an attractive idea too.
I would love to hear from you if you own a Nighthawk or Blackhawk or have auditioned one against something else. I know they offer a 45 day trial period, but from my calculations if I don't like it it will cost me close to 400.00 out of pocket once the dust settles. So I'd like to go into this with a warm fuzzy that it's pretty darn good.
My only dissatisfaction with Raven was the dearth of communication from the time I ordered my amp till the time I received it, which admittedly I became increasingly frustrated with as time went on. As previously mentioned, those concerns disappeared once I finally did receive my amp in good working order. This may be a weak spot in an otherwise exemplary company. Perhaps they could stand more help than just primarily James coordinating everything as they grow.
The Blackhawk for sale on Audiomart is definitely skypunk. His first name is Jeff and if you read his Audiomart feedback the name Jeff is mentioned. Looking at his virtual system you see some Simaudio Moon gear. Looking at his Audiomart feedback you will see the same piece of Moon gear mentioned. He also sold a Rega RP8 and if you go to the Raven website and look at customer reviews of the Celest' Towers you will see the Rega. He's the one who flipped out because they sent him the tweeter waveguide for the Corvus instead of the Celest'Towers. His name is also Jeff.
disturbing set of data points emerging re raven - maybe not so much the amps but the small team of folks behind them -- suspect quality or at least poor packaging leading to amps being shipped and not surviving their trips unscathed
poor customer follow up is related but separate problem - these are indeed rough times for small companies, seems like raven is not immune to - still with the number of folks here citing communication issues now... not good...
hopefully as the pandemic stabilizes, the company will come back onto more solid footing in terms of responsiveness (but then again, they are in texas... maybe slower there than other places for the pandemic to get under control)
I will say that I've only had outstanding interaction with Dave Thompson, and I've yet to see otherwise about him. I encountered poor communication at times, yet I am very happy with my Blackhawk. I feel their products are an excellent value for the money, but that does not excuse subpar communication. Hopefully it's just growing pains.
I emailed Raven earlier.... I am not a happy camper. Not going to get into details but very let down at the moment. I will send the amp back next week. I really think some basic support from Raven could of prevented this situation. I have always tried to support local and smaller businesses and will continue to do so. I know my purchase was on the lower end of there product line but I think they should support all there customers equally. I guess I’ll dig out my old faithful SS Yamaha until I find the right tube amp. :) any suggestions:):) ??
This is Dave Thomson. Please call me so I can help. I don't know what's going on but I promise I will make sure that whatever it is is taken care of.
Sorry for anyone and everyone that has ever had a problem with my products, but we are indeed growing and with this Covid problem sometimes this alone has been a very difficult situation. Horrible even.
You guys just cannot imagine what occurs in the supply chain behind the brand sometimes that nobody else ever hears about. But it is substantial right now especially... still there is never any GOOD reason to ever not take care of a customer and make sure that he/she is eventually happy with the Raven Audio product they receive.
Sometimes the problem behind communication is that we need a break sometimes too. And our new facility has been hit hard by the virus. With only 1 person full time, and two current part timers due to our age and family situations, it has been a bit of a struggle to make everyone perfectly happy immediately.
I therefore am here right now to make those that aren't happy - if possible, eventually. As in NOW! Call me, or email me at dave@R_____.com please. If you don't have my number already email me and I will send it to you right away so we can talk ear to ear.
I will also apologize ahead of time for not being able to be here all the time anymore. I am unfortunately not going to be able to do that for a while. But I am here to try to catch up right now, so please. Get with me directly and I will try to figure this situation out.
Especially.... thanks to all the RavenHeads that notified me of this problem on Agon.
And there you have it, I was wondering how long it would be before Dave or James responded. They usually respond to customer issues quickly. Just to bad it had to be aired out here. Cheers.
but then again, they are in texas... maybe slower there than other places for the pandemic to get under control)
Wonder what that has to do with Texas?
Last I checked Texas was open for business like Florida, would think it would be a bigger issue if you are in NY, CA, NJ, MI, IL, they are all still locked down.
@watersidedave kudos to Dave for jumping in and proactively handling the brewing situation. It doesn’t appear that anyone has an issue with products. It appears to be everything Dave outlined plus the tweaking of underpromising and over delivering to catch up to changing circumstances. Ok. Now let’s all have some wine and listen to some music!
Dave, I don’t want to hear anything about communications problems because of Covid.
I bought my Nighthawk two years ago. After receiving the defective Raven, my phone calls were not answered for a long time. I called over and over and over and left messages. I did not get return calls. I told James on the phone how unhappy I was about this and how unhappy I was about the packaging.
Like I said before, I know some people love Raven products but the whole experience left me with a very bad taste in my mouth.
Wow, that was really nice. You don’t want to "hear anything about communications problems because of Covid" I actually wasn’t even talking to you Sir. But I certainly would have, had you ever asked.
But since you are so quick to interject when I am trying to help someone... let’s get to it.
I don’t believe you have ever even tried to contact me? I also don’t think I have ever left you or anyone else hanging - that I know of. EVER.
We have gone through at least four generations of packaging over the past two years alone. To great expense I might add, though it probably doesn’t matter to anyone other than us.
And since COVID shipping situations in this country have become a lot more troublesome due to the volume of people staying at home because of COVID. I have to mention it, because it COVID is HIGHLY relevant in my conversation to the person I was responding to...
If you are disgruntled enough to come on this forum like this when I came to try to help someone else - without even trying to contact me (founder of Raven Audio) after all of the suggestions to that I have just read, I am wondering if you are even open to being helped?
I truly am sorry that we couldn’t have made you happy Sir. But I am always here for anyone that is having problems. I get dozens of calls per week. So I have to wonder why I haven’t a clue as to who you are or why you would interject yourself into a response to help someone. Else.
hopefully as the pandemic stabilizes, the company will come back onto more solid footing in terms of responsiveness (but then again, they are in texas... maybe slower there than other places for the pandemic to get under control)
my comment posted earlier ^^^^ about texas relating to raven (and not ag member ’skypunk’ and his attempts to sell his used raven amp, who is coincidentally also based in tx) is only to say that while texas, like michigan and florida are indeed ’open for business’, their state governments have made poor choices that have allowed what were declining numbers of covid cases to rebound, now that new more infectious variants abound, and these variants are outpacing the vaccinations being given... the implication being that businesses like raven may be ’open’ but they are limping badly compared to normal times due to the worsening covid situations in their state presently - as we can plainly see, dave @ raven is trying to operate his business but he is struggling mightily, all good intentions notwithstanding
of course i don’t know the specifics but that is the assertion/supposition i made in my post
I hope to help the person I was talking to first though, if possible. I am unsure of who he is, and I would really like to make sure that he is taken care of first if that's alright.
I probably should have toned it down a bit, but I was a little surprised at the level of vitriol I was hit with right off. Maybe it was a bit unprofessional of me. I will be a bit more er, politically minded next time... though maybe not in a Texas way.... ;-)
folks like dave at raven should have the benefit of the doubt, and it would be nice to see him/raven make a rebound with customers coming back to say all is well, concerns have been addressed and they are happy - dave deserves that - keyboard warriors like us are too far removed from how hard it is to run a small business and hold it all together in these times
there is one ax grinder who has posted it seems, others have posted legit issues on communications and follow up... let’s wait see all this get fixed as they should be
my specific comment about texas relating to raven (and not member
'skypunk' and his attempts to sell his used raven amp) is only to say
that while texas, like michigan and florida are indeed open for
business, their state govermments have made choices that have allowed
covid cases to rebound now that new more infectious variants abound, and
these are outracing the vaccinations occurring... the implication being
that businesses like raven may be 'open' but they are limping badly
compared to normal times due to the worsening covid situations in their
state
of course i don't know the specifics but that is assertion/supposition i made in my post below
@jjss49 point taken on the impact of COVID on all business across the globe. BTW Michigan is closed again. It's a real mess there.
I have some family in Austin as well as Dallas and new COVID cases are down and deaths are down state wide. Guess masks and vaccinations are working for now. So I am not sure where you are getting your information on COVID in TX.
Though it is true that we are manned physically by only 1 person in the new Raven Audio facility in Shreveport, others are working FOR Raven in manufacturing elsewhere - all of the time.
We are only down to 3 in the sales department, with James being the only one physically in the office - for good reason. We are trying to be careful to not contribute to the (worldwide) problem at present because Shreveport has been hit quite ruthlessly in the recent past - including our new Raven Audio facility - twice. Of course we had to shut down both times and extreme clean it. We too have had our share of Covid problems, though we are not using this as an excuse for anything.
With the vaccine being so readily available now we all hope things are going to change quite quickly in the very near future.
Please keep this thread open. If the moderator wants to delete inappropriate comments and block those who make them, that would be fine. I think we are fortunate to have @watersidedave here and aware of this group. Thank you.
Ok, I have to defend Dave T. I have known him for over 8 years and have purchased various products from Raven. He has taken the time to discuss any thoughts that I have about my amp at any hour of the day. I have even called him at 11pm expecting to leave a message and he answered the phone. I have NEVER had a communication problem with Dave. He is a class individual and for him customer satisfaction is critical.
Sometimes people just don't know how to get into contact with the right people. And yes, that can be frustrating. One of the big problems with Audiogon, is they do not want you publishing phone numbers. This really is a stupid rule because many problems could be resolved quickly without having to air them on this forum and potentially hurting the Company.
I have had a music server on order for over 5 months. I built a new house and it took me over 7 months to get a dishwasher from Thermador. Thermador never once got in contact with me to provide me an update. The supply chain is definitely affected by this pandemic in almost every industry. We DO need to take that into account.
I am confident that Dave T will help Robert get his hum taken care of. And, I am really looking forward to Ozzy providing his feedback once his Raven amp does get delivered.
Well I'm not going to be able to give a report on the Osprey. I cancelled my order yesterday. My decision was based on a combination of things. There were delays with the amp being shipped, and to be fair, it may not have been anyone's fault at Raven. But since ordering the amp I have received feedback offline from a few people who had quality issues with Avian amps, mostly due to noise issues. And since I have extremely high sensitivity speakers this worried me a bit. Combined with the delays I just decided to jump ship.
I am in no way throwing Raven under the bus. I am sure they make very good sounding amps and I hope to hear one someday. And I do wish them luck with working through any supply and/or customer service issues they are currently having. I understand James has a lot on his plate and just wasn't able to be there for every customer like he wanted to be.
Since I started this thread I wanted to provide this information without leaving anyone hanging. But my intent is not to disparage this company in any way. And I hope anyone who has an amp on order will be extremely happy with their purchase.
The guys at Raven should ship that amp to @millercarbon free of charge. He has been Hawkin’ Raven amps since he’s been posting here. He has probably given Raven more exposure to the many that have not known about Raven products!!
Oz, I know it's too late, but wanted to say I heard the Raven amps with Volti speakers, at a Dallas show, and they were quiet. I don't remember the exact amps we were listening to though, but sounded great.
@watersidedave Dave. I appreciate you chiming in on Audiogon.I am new to tube amps and also to the forums. Please take a look at all my post I was just trying to get help troubleshooting my amp.
I contacted Bryant originally and he referred me to James ..I had a conversation and a few emails/ text with James and he reassured me that we will get the problems solved. I waited over a week with no call back about possibly having a bad tube . I understand you guys are busy and that is one of the reasons I asked for help on the forum.
My statement about not being happy with raven was 100% based on the response James gave me on my email yesterday,,, I took it as raven had already given up on me and my amp.
The first time I contacted Raven is the day I placed my order. I did not tire kick or drag out my purchase.. I was going to order a prima Luna(in stock) but came across your products on the forum and new I wanted to be a part of of The Raven family.
I’m currently out of town for a few days but will get the amp back to you ASAP. I have no intentions in getting wrapped up in a mud fight online I just needed help making a great looking amp sound great.
OZ, yes thanks for the update, a class post. Was following this thread as I was once interested in going the integrated route and the Raven Blackhawk or Osprey in particular, however decided to remain with separates.
The guys at Raven should ship that amp to @millercarbon free of charge. He has been Hawkin’ Raven amps since he’s been posting here. He has probably given Raven more exposure to the many that have not known about Raven products!!
as i have expressed in other posts, i think this cuts both ways like a sharp sword...lol -- it amazes me mc goes on and on about raven but doesn't even have one 🙄🙄🙄
like having the idiot orange man with comb-over plugging your start-up's products, yes you may get a few hits but also a whole lotta hate...
but dave at raven is not mc... so we should be careful to distinguish between the two - hopefully raven can get supply chain, customer responsiveness, packing/damages sorted out soon and gets only reports from happy customers...
@ozzy62, When I see "idiot orange man" in a post I just smile and think about our new "leader of the free world". Embarrassing is too kind a word.
Oz, Very well said. Lets stay on topic regarding Raven Audio. We all recognize the deep political divide in this country. I was really looking forward to the Osprey versus your seperates tube components . But I understand and respect your decision. Charles
I have dealt with James in the past and found him to be very helpful, knowledgable, and responsive. My guess is he is struggling to keep pace with the growing demands of the business and can use an extra hand or two. By the way, this episode has really increased my respect and admiration for companies like Pass Labs who go above and beyond to make sure their customers are satisfied. And you don’t have to call Nelson every time to escalate your concerns ;)
Given the onslaught of chifi products, it is easy to see how difficult it is to build and sell products in the USA. You obviously cannot undercut them on price, so your only option is to make a very high quality, reliable product and provide excellent customer service, pre and post sales, to retain their business. I think Raven would do well to get some help for James instead of publicly shaming an ex-customer for sharing his experience. Sorry but that was uncalled for.
What is so embarrassing exactly? Trying to represent all people like you signed up to do and the job requires? Trying to do the right thing knowing you won’t please everybody? Being respectful to others and their differing views and perspectives? Not being "perfect"? Leveraging science and expertise of others properly to try and solve big problems and make people's lives better? Not being a know-it-all? A 60%+ approval rating?
This is the exact reason to make sure your product is tested in various system especially 100db systems where you can hear tube noise, static, hum, noise, etc., and fix it before you ship a product out. Last thing you want it to have people complaining about your product no matter how good it may be. Noise can be fixed cheaply if yuo know what you are doing.
Ozzy, good luck in your audio journey. I was really looking forward to your review. I really wish you could have at least demo'd the Raven and taken advantage of the return policy if needed. But I understand your concerns. It is my strong opinion in the 3-4k price range no amp is world beater. The Raven was just tremendous sound and value for the money.
The guys at Raven should ship that amp to @millercarbon free of charge.
I think it would be wonderful if Dave would ship me Ozzy62's amp for review. Would be such fun to write everything I am sure it will be, including trouble free. Provide a great opportunity to explore just how much damage some of the low-life complainers around here do to our economy and the audio community as a whole. Not that any of them will care. They will go right on fabricating stories about problems they never had (three different ones flat out made up stories while I was waiting for my Moabs, I am sure that is what is going on with at least one of them here) and exaggerating problems that often as not they themselves contributed to.
Then at the end Dave sells the amp, I ship it to whoever. They are happy to get a tiny little discount on a beautiful amp fully burned in and vetted by one of the best, and Dave gets a full on review by one of the most credible and talented writers around. Plus I get to enjoy a Raven for a few weeks. Not that Dave needs the extra business, but it never hurts to burnish the ol' rep.
Thanks everyone... I really should come by more often. I see some old friends on here that I really miss.
Apologies for not being more active on the forums the last year. I could talk at length on the supply chain problems we have had this year. Not as an excuse, but just to talk about what's been happening behind the overall scene. We're not the only ones, many others are having problems too.
Not only is just trying to GET parts difficult, the quality dip we have seen during the last year has been very disheartening. In fact we've had to change some parts out completely in our Avian Series amps lately due to poor quality.
Heck... even our power knob had to be changed to a push button lately because the shafts of the great old radial power switches were starting to break off in shipping. Even though it was just one batch... it was a LARGE batch. We never had that before - and from a great old time-honored Japanese brand too.
Steel and aluminum have doubled in price since Thanksgiving too. So just getting the raw materials to the chassis shop in Dallas has been a chore lately. Heck, even powder coating has doubled~!
The manufacturing world is changing fast, we can only hope that the quality gets better again once the vaccines are distributed and old codgers like me can finally feel safe going out. Maybe we can even go to a show again someday!?
As to getting an amp to millercarbon, I'd love to. And I certainly would have once upon a time too. But I don't even have a single MK3 or MK3.1 myself, and haven't for almost 8 months... we are shipping them out as soon as they leave the 72 hour break-in table. We just simply cannot seem to build them fast enough.
I think well over 90% of our customers never even write on any forums. They get their amps and just listen to music and call me if they need some great old tubes to play with.
That may be a good thing in retrospect... it was well over a decade before we ever saw anything negative written about us anywhere. That was a great run.
It's always best to have someone impartial conduct the review versus someone that has already made up their mind. All the best going forward with your business
@facten, Your comments reflect many participants on this forum. Sincere best wishes and success to Raven Audio and all audio equipment manufacturers trying to make it through challenging times. Charles
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