Rap music on high-end speakers

I think that this thread has turned into a PERFECT example of just how "important" preconcieved ideas, prejudice and bias are in society. Is that bad ? I don't think so. Why should audio be any different than the rest of the various subjects that we could discuss ???

As such, anyone that thinks that they are not prejudiced or completely free of bias are either liars or fooling themselves. Those that worry more about being "politically correct" rather than speaking their mind and being forthright in their opinions are those that lack self confidence or convictions in their ideas. You can call it "tact" or "being understanding", i'll simply call it "lacking balls". As a case in point, would you rather have someone smile and nod in agreement while inside they look down their nose and think "what a jerk" or would you rather know exactly where you stand in their eyes to begin with ??? I think that answer is obvious.While there are ways to get the message across without ripping someone's heart out, the message remains the same: "I don't like or agree with that".

As to why people would have the ideas that they do about "rap", "hip-hop", etc..., take a look around. Most of the time that you hear this music or see the participants, the sound is HORRIBLE while the listeners and creators try to portray themselves as being "ghetto gangsters". If you doubt this, take a look at the "kicker boxes" that are sold to the public to recreate this music. Big woofers in untuned boxes and Piezo tweeters. The more "lo-fi" it sounds ( boomier, undefined, lacking detail, smeared and splashy, etc..), the greater the chance of the "car stereo enthusiast" installing it in his "pimp mobile". In plain English, what is "bad" to those that know better becomes "good" to those that don't know any better.

Since many of the participants here may have never listened to various artists that produce "music" of the above mentioned genres in detail, they base their opinions on what they have experienced. Is this wrong ? Hell no. You and i do it EVERY day, dozens of times a day. Whether or not it is a "good" opinion or "bad" opinion simply has to do with what side of the fence you stand on with that specific subject. Were they wrong to share their point of view. Definitely not. This IS a discussion forum. Could they have done it with a little more respect ? Quite possibly.

The funny thing is that the hi-fi world used to be divided between those that listened to Classical music and those that listened to "contemporary music" i.e. rock, blues, jazz, etc... As "music" has spread out even more and has such a wide interpretation as to what qualifies as such nowadays, i find it amusing that the "rockers" and the "old fogey's" have something in common. That would be their general lack of respect and disdain for "hip hop" and "rap". As such, nothing has changed. The shoe has just been moved to a different foot. The same thing will happen with the next generation and so on and so forth.

So long as there is freedom of choice, differences of opinions, personal taste, etc... to deal with, we will always have an "us vs them" to deal with, regardless of the subject. Of course, whether you are with "us" or choose to side with "them" can vary from subject to subject or incident to incident. That's what makes us all individuals with our own ideas. That is also why nobody can tell you what is "right" and what is "wrong", what is "good" what is "bad", etc.... These are all things that rely on one's personal perspective and preferences.

All i can say is that we should ALL be glad that we have the right to choose what WE like as individuals and that we can voice our differences of opinions without fear of reprisal. It is probably only after we've lost these "rights" that everone will agree on something. We should've been thankful for what we HAD. Sean
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As to my comments about "ghetto gangsters", some truly are and some aspire to that position.

Most buyers of rap / hip-hop are "wannabe's" and have no idea about the economic / social situations that many of these performers sing about / have to deal with. I think that Jello Biafra / Dead Kennedy's summed up a similar situation quite well in a tune called "Holiday in Cambodia". When these "wannabe's" get a taste of the REALITY that these people have gone through / still go through, they no longer "pretend" to live or "envy" that lifestyle.

As to "promoting an image" and only the gullible believing it, talk to Tupac about that. He may have been the best at "playing" the part. At least, i think so... Sean
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Karl, most older "classic rock" ( Beatles, Stones, Who, etc ) was done in a time period when the majority of speakers were sealed. For instance, look at AR, KLH, Advent, Jensen, etc... These were all major forces in the industry back then. As such, box tuning is FAR less critical. It is almost hard to make a sealed and stuffed box sound "boomy". Vented / augmented boxes were really just making headway into the mainstream back then. With the advent of Thiel / Smalle parameters, they took off rather rapidly. None the less, companies were not TRYING to produce high Q designs that created huge undamped bass peaks or treble response that made your ears bleed at thirty paces. Yet, there is a HUGE market that WANTS that type of "sound" today and it is primarily for the hip-hop / rap crowd. With that in mind, poor designs of any type are JUNK, regardless of what type of music you're listening to.

Take into account that i am also talking about the AVERAGE "fan" of a specific genre of music. After all, when you think of a specific group of people or products, you typically look at what the "average" represents or how it is viewed by the masses. While it is true that there are extremes or fringe elements to EVERY group, those ARE the extremes and are less likely to be recognized or accounted for. That puts "audiophile hip-hoppers" in the minority and basically out of the picture. The "average" hip-hopper does not seek out "audiophile" grade equipment or sonic characteristics. If they did, "rap" and "hip hop" would NOT have the image that they do. Instead, the "average" fan strives for maximum "thud", poor tonal balance, sizzling high end, etc... Someone that is a rap / hip hop fan that does not go that route is ATYPICAL and therefore not included in the generalized comments that i made.

For the record, i live next to a village that had the lowest annual income per person in the United States. I get to see the REAL "ghetto gangsters", "rappers" and "hip-hoppers" EVERY single day as i drive to work. I did not grow up on a farm or live with my head stuck in a hole in the ground. The "exciting" things that are glorified in those "songs" are a REAL way of life for some of these "Thugz for Life". Peddling dope on street corners, threatening neighbors with death if they call the police, shooting some "ho" that smoked your last rock or drank your last "40" are REAL things there. As such, i can't condone that type of behaviour and don't want to glorify such things. Nor will i support it financially.

If you think my views are tainted by living near the above situation, think again. I live in the suburbs. I can drive 20 minutes into Chicago or 20 minutes out to cornfields. I would consider that a pretty "well rounded" perspective of both "city" and "country" living.

To each their own.... Sean
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Excellent point Bryans. What good is a "music reproduction system" when it is no longer "musical" or "enjoyable" ??? Once again, we come back to walking that fine line between "accurate" & "detailed" vs "musical" & "pacey". For a system to work "right", you've got to have equal measures of all of the above. This is true REGARDLESS of the type of music that you listen to. Sean
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Raguirre, you are absolutely right. "Audiophiles" are not "normal" or "average" in any category of music involvement. We are a diverse group like any other group. That means good, bad and indifferent, fringe and mainstream.

None the less, when someone is "pigeon-holed" as being an audiophile, a certain idea is struck in the observer's mind about that person and what they are like. Over-spending, over-critical, gear-obsessed, etc... are generalizations that come to mind. This does not fit ALL "audiophiles", but it may not be far off ON THE AVERAGE.

So it is for ANY "generalization". That is why "generalizations" are commonly accepted. There is more than just a grain of truth to be found in the statement, so it becomes socially accepted as being "true". It is commonly accepted by those that don't know better or lack exposure / first hand knowledge about the subject. Anyone that is intimately familiar with the subject can PROBABLY shed light on it, typically dispelling most of the assumptions. This does NOT level out how the AVERAGE person perceives the situation though. They simply lack the intimate knowledge to know any better or fully understand the situation and diversity involved.

Just as there are talented rappers / hip-hopper's, musicians that play "metal", etc..., they are often overlooked due to being "categorized". That does NOT mean that they are NOT part of that specific sub-culture or genre of music AND bring the associated "baggage" along with them. While it may be "dangerous" or not "politically correct" to label people / groups as a whole, we all have to prove ourselves as individuals before anyone is going to take notice of us. As such, many hardcore rappers / hip-hoppers that have stood out from the crowd have done so by promoting less than "socially acceptable" points of view or mannerisms. This has only further reinforced the "thug mentality" of rappers / hip-hoppers as a whole.

As an example, take a look at Public Enemy for their stance on racism, NWA's ( Niggers With Attitudes ) racial and "thug" commentaries, Ice T's "cop killer" anthem, etc.. All famous groups that became famous over "negativity" and "thug mentality". Due to this fame and exposure, the AVERAGE media educated person, who lacks exposure to other talented artists with differing points of view, tends to view ALL rappers and hip-hoppers as being "thugs". These groups WERE recognized as "stand-outs" from the crowd i.e. "individuals" but not for "positive" reasons. The "hollywood rappers" ( Will Smith, etc..) are a slightly different story, as they have used their skills to further their careers and NOT remain part of the sub-culture that they started off with.

Keep in mind that the Beatles and Stones were also percieved as "thugs". That's why "rock" music and its' performers received the "labels" that they did back then. That is why i made the comments pertaining to this being a situation that will change from generation to generation. It is the same shoe, just a different foot. Sean
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