Quote of the century.....

I have just finished reading a review by Michael Frener in the latest issue of Stereophile and in it, he may have made the quote of the century :-

"Audio equipment either draws you in to the music, or it pushes you out."

As personal tastes and biases differ in so many different ways, if a component draws you in to the music, that's all that matters. Nothing else - a highly regarded review, a fellow audiophile's opinion, a sales pitch, electronics theory, etc. And if a component pushes you out despite any or all of the above, you simply have to vote with both feet.

Let us all just enjoy whatever equipment that draws us in to the MUSIC.

Cheers! Jon.
Way too much emphasis being put onto the equipment. The listener's physical and mental states are even more important. One has to be open to the experience.
FWIW = Either you believe this guy or not!
Sometimes it just pushes or pulls you sideways.
I believe it.

I've heard systems costing in excess of $300,000 that I wouldn't own. Why? Cold and uninvolving.

On the other hand, I have this old tube MacIntosh receiver and a pair of Grado RS1's in the bedroom ....
I could be wrong, but wasn't that Herb Reichert in his review of the Musical Fidelity Nuvista 800?
The previous Quote of the century.

"This amp can perform miracles with less frenetic genres, but isn't built for anger."
From 'Whathifi' review of denon PMA-SA1

Hi all,
Looks like we are mostly in agreement here. The last post by Rok2id is clearly tongue-in-cheek. :)
I have come to a point where my relatively modest system draws me into the music every time I turn it on.
Once there, there is no turning back where equipment "upgrades" are concerned.

Cheers! J.
I was expecting something from Yogi Berra.
Hi Abucktwoeighty,

Thanks for the link.
I found one that aptly applies to our hobby :-

"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."

J. :)
I'm sure Wolf would agree with the expression "credo quia absurdum."
Hog wash! I just made the quote of all time over at misc audio.
You guys are da bomb!
It was Michael F. And yes, he was reviewing the Nuvista.
It sounds a lot like what many people have been saying for long time with slightly different wording. Nothing profound.
I would say "either you can afford it or not".
Thanks Jon2020. I did enjoy that review, and as a very happy NuVista 800 owner, I can say that it definitely does pull me into the music.
That may be the audio quote of the century but THE quote of the century is"The medium is the message" .
I agree with Roxy54, a quote that many (most?) of us could ‘buy' into even if on a budget.
As long as you are into music, no equipment should draw you out.
Silly, it is the price that draws you in or out. it has nothing to do with the music.
I agree but it took this long for Stereophile to finally figure that out?

I guess a magazine like that in the business of swaying public opinion saying the obvious but embellished still with a tad of hyperbole qualifies.

Translation: you either like it or not.

Pretty rad! (:^)
This has been a good discussion.
To summarise so far, for most of us, it is always the music first.
For some, the equipment or price of equipment takes precedence. And that's silly.
Congrats on your Nuvista 800. If it draws you in to the music, neither you nor Mike would care about anything else.

There are 2 possible responses to the Nuvista 800 :-

A. "Oh, it is ONLY an integrated? How good can that be?"
B. "Oh, it's that good? And the savings from cables would pay for more music. Gotta audition it."

A. would be silly.
B. is the music lover.

Enjoy the music, Arsh.
Cheers! Jon.
"To summarise so far, for most of us, it is always the music first.
For some, the equipment or price of equipment takes precedence. And that's silly."

It's always about the music for us all it's just that some want to explore further into the achievement of other equipment to attain a superior presentation of their beloved music.
The closer to reality the gear sounds, the more impressed you are with it. Not admitting it doesn't give you a monopoly on musical enjoyment. Heck, those who don't obviously enjoy it less. These forums are loaded with subterfuge. I thought it was the "audiophiles" who are the snobs. Oops, my bad.
"....explore further into the achievement of other equipment to attain a superior presentation of their beloved music."

Fully agree. Most of us explore all equipment with an open mind, to serve the music for our hearts and minds, ie whatever draws us in - putting aside everything else about price, published reviews, opinions, theory regarding electronics or equipment design, etc.
Jon, thanks a lot. I entirely agree--it's a music lover's amplifier that also checks all the audiophile boxes.
"These forums are loaded with subterfuge."

To that, I would like to add, dogma. :)

Glad you see the light.
For those who may be interested to read what Arsh is so thoroughly enjoying at home, Stereophile has just published the Nuvista 800 review online.


Enjoy! J.
It's a good read, and his observations are pretty close to what I have experienced myself. I'm listening to it right now!
It is all about the music. The gear / electronics drives us to the music- no doubt. Aren't we a little early in the current century to make assumption(s) ?

Keep me posted and Happy Listening!
Interesting indeed. Those observations seem to mimic my own on my Citation XX. Except that control is apparent across the entire spectrum but with no clinical edge whatsoever. There's also no 'sizzle' and that's because it's so clean there is no harmonic interaction apparent past the actual signal. Something you have to experience to understand. Same with the bottom end. It is without peer. Thanks to the late great Matti Otala.
My all-time favorite quote appeared more than ten years ago by someone here on the 'Gon, regarding the insane amounts people spend on audio:

"...we're all as crazy as we can afford to be"
Yes, the Citation XX is indeed a classic.

Music can touch deeply the heart, mind and soul without having to spend crazy money. :)
If there's a pigeon hole for it then it's the same one with Mr. Otala's rules and philosophy having been implemented. Can you name one?
I had a 240 pound rough looking guy listening to a statement caliber demo tube system, I cranked up Leonard Cohen's Halleluja, halfway through I asked what he thought and turned to look at him, he was sobbing with tears running down his face. We listened to a wide array of music for three hours, he said he had never heard music sound that good. I had many people comment that it didn't matter what we played it all sounded ridiculously good.

When you have a system right it's universal.
+1, Aintitgr8.

"When you have a system right it's universal."

J. :)
To the millions out there who are not into this hobby :-
Fortunate are the many who are drawn in to the music even with the most modest of equipment.

To the few left in this world who are in this hobby :-
Fortunate are the few amongst us who are drawn in to the music even with the most modest of equipment.

Which category would you rather be in?
I would bet that the majority of "audiophile" systems sound
pretty good. Not according to our own personal standards or preferences,
but in comparison to the systems that the majority of avid MUSIC listeners
listen on. I have news for we audiophiles: we don't have a monopoly on
love for music. Yes, no doubt that a well assembled high end system
greatly enhances the listening experience; and, yes, I have heard a handful
of "audiophile" systems that were so poorly put together and
matched by a totally clueless individual that it did, in fact, push me away
from the music. Even then, however, I had my "audiophile hat" on; it's hard
to not have that hat on when staring at hundreds of pounds of audio bling.

I think Czarivey got it right. If you are into the music the equipment should
not (won't) push you away from the music. I am reminded of a fairy tale
from my childhood in which a princess could not sleep on a mattress
because there was a pea underneath it. Let's not confuse our love of
music with our love of sound.
God bless Michael Frener, he is basically saying "Sometimes you feel like a nut and sometimes you don't". Yes anything less than the love of music is a fools paradise.
"If you are into the music the equipment should 
not (won't) push you away from the music."

This would apply to all non-audiophiles but to the audiophile, some equipment unfortunately really does push you away. We must have all experienced this - just couldn't wait to leave the room.  
"Yes anything less than the love of music is a fools paradise."

+1, Phd.
Hi Frogman,

"Let's not confuse our love of 
music with our love of sound."

This just struck me as immensely deep and profound - a new quotable quote.
This could start a whole new round of discussion.
Jon2020, I believe you are right that Frogman has succeeded in breaking it down in to simpler terms. I would like to think that I could still enjoy music even if its reproduced on a less then perfect system, unless as it was mentioned above that the system was assembled by a person who has no idea what they are doing. The final sound of any system is the most important goal of most all Audiophiles and they will take any measures within reason to continually improve (tweak) it over a period of time, even if it means investing in better sounding more expensive gear. Thus an industry has been born.

After being on the merry-go-round for many years I have to believe that the music is the most important thing and have rediscovered it on a system that is good enough and have redefined what I have been trying to accomplish.

Delving deeper into Frogman's profound statement,
I would say I agree with it most of the time but,
here's the but....

Sometimes the sound and the music are not so
easily separated. If I don't like the sound, I
probably would not like the music. But if I like
the sound, I could grow to like the music.

A case in point for me personally would be
classical music. Before, when my modest system
could not resolve every instrument of an
orchestra with proper imaging, separation, tone,
etc, I simply could not listen to orchestral
performances from my system. Even as I thoroughly
enjoy live concerts at acoustically good venues.

When my system improved to the point where I
could enjoy classical at home, I was discovering
good old and new recordings everyday. So, the
sound and the music go together to
pleasure the senses. You know it's all good when
it all comes together at full tilt and you don't
feel like turning down the volume or bolting from
the room.

But it is ONLY from this point on that it's only
all about the music and any thoughts of equipment
upgrades then become secondary to experiencing
the sheer joy of music itself!

J. :)

The little speaker in the car was mediocre, but the experience of my 15 year old self hearing the Beatles newly released "I'm looking through you" in a Honolulu strip mall parking lot (I sat there stunned until the song finished) in 1965 was life altering and utterly unforgettable.
Hah! For me it was in 1968 hearing "Hey Jude" (long version)
as a ten year old on my uncle's little Magnavox (early ss) bedside stereo
radio. First time I had heard R&R as a newly arrived Third World (legal)
immigrant. I will never forget it.
When listening to music, does one discern the forest or the trees?

Does not take much to discern the forest.

But once you start focusing on the trees, next might be the critters in them, or the leaves, or even the bugs eating them.

Depending on where your interests lead you, it can be really easy or fairly hard.
For me, it was Neil Diamond singing "I am....I said" live on that Hot August Night from a regular portable radio when I was ten.