Way too much emphasis being put onto the equipment. The listener's physical and mental states are even more important. One has to be open to the experience.
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Congrats on your Nuvista 800. If it draws you in to the music, neither you nor Mike would care about anything else.
There are 2 possible responses to the Nuvista 800 :-
A. "Oh, it is ONLY an integrated? How good can that be?"
B. "Oh, it's that good? And the savings from cables would pay for more music. Gotta audition it."
A. would be silly.
B. is the music lover.
Enjoy the music, Arsh.
"To summarise so far, for most of us, it is always the music first.
For some, the equipment or price of equipment takes precedence. And that's silly."
It's always about the music for us all it's just that some want to explore further into the achievement of other equipment to attain a superior presentation of their beloved music.
"....explore further into the achievement of other equipment to attain a superior presentation of their beloved music."
Fully agree. Most of us explore all equipment with an open mind, to serve the music for our hearts and minds, ie whatever draws us in - putting aside everything else about price, published reviews, opinions, theory regarding electronics or equipment design, etc.
Interesting indeed. Those observations seem to mimic my own on my Citation XX. Except that control is apparent across the entire spectrum but with no clinical edge whatsoever. There's also no 'sizzle' and that's because it's so clean there is no harmonic interaction apparent past the actual signal. Something you have to experience to understand. Same with the bottom end. It is without peer. Thanks to the late great Matti Otala.
I had a 240 pound rough looking guy listening to a statement caliber demo tube system, I cranked up Leonard Cohen's Halleluja, halfway through I asked what he thought and turned to look at him, he was sobbing with tears running down his face. We listened to a wide array of music for three hours, he said he had never heard music sound that good. I had many people comment that it didn't matter what we played it all sounded ridiculously good.
When you have a system right it's universal.
To the millions out there who are not into this hobby :-
Fortunate are the many who are drawn in to the music even with the most modest of equipment.
To the few left in this world who are in this hobby :-
Fortunate are the few amongst us who are drawn in to the music even with the most modest of equipment.
Which category would you rather be in?
I would bet that the majority of "audiophile" systems sound
pretty good. Not according to our own personal standards or preferences,
but in comparison to the systems that the majority of avid MUSIC listeners
listen on. I have news for we audiophiles: we don't have a monopoly on
love for music. Yes, no doubt that a well assembled high end system
greatly enhances the listening experience; and, yes, I have heard a handful
of "audiophile" systems that were so poorly put together and
matched by a totally clueless individual that it did, in fact, push me away
from the music. Even then, however, I had my "audiophile hat" on; it's hard
to not have that hat on when staring at hundreds of pounds of audio bling.
I think Czarivey got it right. If you are into the music the equipment should
not (won't) push you away from the music. I am reminded of a fairy tale
from my childhood in which a princess could not sleep on a mattress
because there was a pea underneath it. Let's not confuse our love of
music with our love of sound.
Jon2020, I believe you are right that Frogman has succeeded in breaking it down in to simpler terms. I would like to think that I could still enjoy music even if its reproduced on a less then perfect system, unless as it was mentioned above that the system was assembled by a person who has no idea what they are doing. The final sound of any system is the most important goal of most all Audiophiles and they will take any measures within reason to continually improve (tweak) it over a period of time, even if it means investing in better sounding more expensive gear. Thus an industry has been born.
After being on the merry-go-round for many years I have to believe that the music is the most important thing and have rediscovered it on a system that is good enough and have redefined what I have been trying to accomplish.
Delving deeper into Frogman's profound statement,
I would say I agree with it most of the time but,
here's the but....
Sometimes the sound and the music are not so
easily separated. If I don't like the sound, I
probably would not like the music. But if I like
the sound, I could grow to like the music.
A case in point for me personally would be
classical music. Before, when my modest system
could not resolve every instrument of an
orchestra with proper imaging, separation, tone,
etc, I simply could not listen to orchestral
performances from my system. Even as I thoroughly
enjoy live concerts at acoustically good venues.
When my system improved to the point where I
could enjoy classical at home, I was discovering
good old and new recordings everyday. So, the
sound and the music go together to
pleasure the senses. You know it's all good when
it all comes together at full tilt and you don't
feel like turning down the volume or bolting from
But it is ONLY from this point on that it's only
all about the music and any thoughts of equipment
upgrades then become secondary to experiencing
the sheer joy of music itself!
When listening to music, does one discern the forest or the trees?
Does not take much to discern the forest.
But once you start focusing on the trees, next might be the critters in them, or the leaves, or even the bugs eating them.
Depending on where your interests lead you, it can be really easy or fairly hard.