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"Frightening" or "Relaxing" sound quality?

What do I mean by that?
Not that I wish to start a new controversy --- knowing some of the usual contributors, it may not be entirely avoidable, so let’s see what gives.

Following some of the threads on the –ultimate- ‘phase-coherent’, 'time-coherent' or yet better, both, 1st order up to steep slopes, an so on, cross-over opinions, I have these notions. So let me explain.

One quite well known ‘maverick’ (done some picking on some other well known reviewer, posting it on his site...), somewhere he states: a good speaker must have the ability 'to frighten you' --- his words, and I can see/hear what he means, at least I think so.

Some other dealer in Wilson’s marvellous products (he's around my place), tells me he can only listen for about ½ hour than he is 'exhausted' --- i.e. too intense to do any longer listening…

Nobody is talking about ‘listening fatigue’ actually, it is more an emotional fatigue, as far as I get it.

Now me, I go to a life orchestra listening and emerge pretty well ‘up-lifted’, never had any fatigue (maybe my bottom, when it got a bit too lengthy) never mind emotional fatigue! Gimme Mahler, Stravinsky, Mussorgsky, heavy (classical) metal, whow --- upliftment. Never occur to me run away, get uneasy, GET FRIGHTENED!

I clearly get ‘emotional fatigue’ listening to some types of speakers!
What were they?
I think they had one thing in common: They all where, in some way, VERY realistic, but they also had something else in common, --- they did not, as it seems, stick too well to a reasonably flat amplitude response… ah ha.

What this design regimen seems to produce during listening to keep on making you jump? Apparently always something rather unexpected in happening! Now we do also know what makes us (as humans) ‘jump’: it is some unexpected ‘something’ coming ‘out of the bush’ a snapping branch, some sort of VERY REAL sound, that does not quite go along with the general set of the acoustic environment.

Now take some ‘benign, dumb’ kind of speaker, it has so little in REALISTIC sound to offer, it just can’t frighten you. You (your instinct, subconscious) just don’t ‘buy’ into it.
Now take a VERY realistic sound-producer (the ones that can make you jump) and mess with the amplitude response, what you are getting is this on the edge of your seat reaction. The VERY opposite of what a lot of music has as its intention. (Not like AV ‘Apocalypse now’ kind of chopper going to attack you from any old angle, top, behind, etc.)

Lastly, has this something to do with why lots of folks perhaps shy away from these sort of designs?
I have listened to my share and I shy away, because as REAL everything seems to be in the reproduction, it keeps me in a state of inner tension, apprehension --- even listening to some Mozart Chamber music, as there is ALWAYS something very REAL, but somehow unsettling going on.

It might just explain why some of these designs don’t ‘cut the mustard’ and not survive in the long run. Unless, and open to opinion, that we are (most of us anyway) so messed up and transistor-radio-sound-corrupted that we seem ‘unworthy of these ‘superior’ audio-designs.
I honestly don’t think so, but you may have it otherwise, as they say YMMV.

I thought it is of value to bring this up, since it does not ever seem to be part of any of the more ‘technical’ discussions ---- the human ‘fright/flight’ element in ignoring proper FLAT amplitude response in favour of minimal insertion losses, or proper impedance compensation, notch filtering, et al, just so to obtain this form of stressful realism.

It might be also something to do with age, a much younger listener (in my experience) likes to be stirred up, and emotionally knocked all over the place ---- listening to Baroque music like bungee jumping?!
Maybe.
It be interesting to hear if it is just my form of ‘over-sensitiveness’ that brings forth this subject.
Best,
Axel
axelwahl

Showing 4 responses by atmasphere

atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,556 posts
 
I can name two: High Emotion Audio, which has one of the fastest tweeters ever made (which is also quite relaxed at the same time) and the Classic Audio Loudspeaker equipped with field coil drivers. It shares the high speed/relaxed qualities of the High Emotion Audio systems.

When someone is singing, these speakers can reproduce that effect so well that if you are at home alone, you can be quite startled by the voice's realism. I've had that happen- knowing that the doors are locked, but someone besides me is in the house, and singing along with the stereo. Spooky.

But- that is what the system is *supposed* to do. As jaundiced audiophiles, we tend to be startled when the system actually **does** it.
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,556 posts
 
Cdc, I was referring to the S- series, with the new tweeter. It is without question one of the faster tweeters made, and they really had to work at it to get the woofer and crossover to keep up. But they did it, and also got the impedance curve to be quite flat. As a consequence, the speaker is easy to drive- we get excellent results with our smallest amps driving them.
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,556 posts
 
Hi Axel, I really don't get all of what you are trying to say in your post to me. But- I did speak to the designer of the High Emotion Audio speakers, and he had some comments about poorly designed M-derived crossovers found in a lot of other loudspeakers.... That might give you a clue as to what he is up to. So far I've not seen any published graphs, but given the way they behave on the variety of amps we've played them with (both tube and solid state) its obvious that they do indeed have a very flat impedance curve.

I'm not actually in the business of selling speakers, frightening or no. I am a manufacturer of amps, and FWIW if an amplifier manufacturer starts selling speakers, the other speaker manufacturers around will be far less likely to recommend that amplifier product! So I stay the hell away from that.

I don't get the 300b comment at all...
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,556 posts
 
OK- let;s try a different tack. Track 3 of the Thin Red Line soundtrack: this is only on CD. There is an intense string passage towards the end of the track. A good system has no problem separating things, but if there are problems the strings will appear as a harsh mass.

All components in the signal chain can affect this. Not just the player, or the amp, preamp or speaker- all of them.

My point here is that without a proper reference, it can be hard to tell where an artifact is coming from. Odd-ordered harmonic distortion content in an amp or preamp can make a system that is otherwise flat frequency response sound edgy, jitter and other digital-domain errors can make the CD sound harsh or unsettling, the interaction between the speaker and amp might be incorrect (see http://www.atma-sphere.com/papers/paradigm_paper2.html for more info), and of course the speaker itself can have a variety of issues.

I do lots of shows and sometimes we get pretty good sound at them. You'd be amazed at the number of people that walk in the door and assume that it is the speaker that is responsible for that -when it takes the entire system. Sure, the speakers have to be good, and a good speaker is also revealing. That means that the amp has to be good, and a good amp is also revealing... you see where I am going with this?
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