Based upon your comments in other threads (like NOS tubes for SF Line 1) you have a clear head and a conscious mind. In the end, you are the only one you need to please.
With that said, and IMO, and based upon my experience, I find that the Bedini works. Does it make a night and day difference...No. Does it work the same on every disc...No.
Is it worth the effort...IMO, Yes. Do I treat both sides of the CD....Yes.
I sold mine as I thought I had a deal cornered on a Furutech RD-2, and then that deal disappeared. But I will find another, and when I do I will buy it. IMO, it is well worth the effort.
In a previous thread:
AG member Buscis2 detailed his methodology of CD preparation. His method included the RD-2.
I have one in my possession that I STOLE from another AudiogoNer. CDs played after having been 'clairified' sound different, but I'm not sure if it better. The whole thing is kinda weird, but then so is the guy I stole it from!
I am considering the purcahse of a Clarifier as the dealer states the same " I don't know how but it does" But he has indicated that the disc be treated for each playing is that the case with your experience?
I've got one of those somewhere. I used it quite a few times and never noticed the difference. Stopped using it years ago. Anybody want it cheap? :-)
Newbee, if I bought yours would I have to return the one I stole?
I have one of the regular Clarifiers. Back in the days when I first got it my friend and I got together for a test. He and I have a lot of the same CDs, so he brought some of his dupes. I had him sit in my listening spot (we used my system, which he was very familiar with) and put in CDs, not telling him which of the two dupes were Clarified. In about a dozen tries he only missed one. His characterizations of the differences were consistent with mine. How it works? I have no idea. But it does do something to the way the sound is ultimately translated off the CD. Always better? I don't know that I can say that. Always noticable? Can't say that either.
One of the components used in Manufacturing ink is "IRON". When they print the labels on commercial CD's, it is most likely the "IRON" in the ink that becomes magnetized from the spinning of the disc.
Also since CD's are 99.something % aluminum, means that the ". something %" is probably another base metal, which makes up the alloy that CD's are made from. This ". something %" of metal may also become energized by the spinning action of the CD.
When you de-magnetize the CD, it is most likely the Label that you are demagnetizing.
Results are subtle, but positive, and the gains seem to be in the upper registers.
You've got to have a real double/triple blind test to prove it works. You also have to have the volume levels match. I would think any difference in volume, especially a slight increase in volume on the clarifier side, would lead to a favorable result.
Gee, and I thought that CD were made of polycarbonate, with thin (very)aluminum coat imbedded on one side surface . And ink contains iron? Maybe so that the music is less "anemic"?
You play both disks through the same system, so how could you have volume differences?
If you do that you wouldn't have any differences if you did that. You need a real switch unit to do that. I still haven't seen real double blind test results for any of these snake oil products. If it works for you great. My will always be that it doesn't work until I see a real test.
actually you're right. I was thinking of comparing two cd players from a discussion in another forum. I still haven't seen a real double/triple blind test of this. anyone have any links?
Plinko; a simple muting switch ! et voila same level before and after.
Theo, the lit says to clean both sides of the CD each time you play it, but I don't. It takes several repeated plays for the disc to start to show any degrade, in my opinion.
Tonyptony, I did basically the same thing. Friends that have the same Cds as I. We have listened to them on their systems and on mine. The results were always the same. The clarified disc sounded better. And we left the volume control set in the same place, as I am sure you did also. There was no reason to change it.
Davehrab, What you say about the label, seems to have legs. I think that is the reason you spin both sides of the CD. Any time I buy a CD with a dark colored label the Bedini will improve the CD. One of the worst CDs that sounded dead on my system was "O Brother, were art thou". The label is black. A spin in the Bedini improved it greatly. Even Diana Krall, Love Scenes sounded better after cleaned. This disc also a black label. Another Krall disc,The Girl in The Other Room. Dark red label. I do not want to leave the impression the Krall discs did not sound very good before cleaned, The Bedini did make a slight improvement. Krall's voice was fuller, richer sounding. Piano was more open and natural. Bass was even a little tighter.
Jea48, thanks for the report. My feeling is that if my friend doesn't see what CD I'm putting in (he didn't) and the equipment was exactly the same each time (it was) then it means something, at least. No, it's not a double blind A-B or A-B-X test, but I'm not sure in a case like this it's necessary. As for the Clarifier possibly doing something to the volume, maybe that's part of the point: if the Clarifier actually does something to CDs that causes the volume difference to be on the order of .2-.5 dB (based on my experience around the point where some people can reliably start to tell a difference) then it must definitely be doing SOMETHING to the disc! If that's all it's doing then somebody explain HOW?!
Jea48 ... you can always tell a Pioneer by the arrows in his back
Here is a cut and paste from a 6 Moons Audio review of the original Furutech RD1 ... maybe I should send a copy to email@example.com
From the 6 Moons Audio article
Furutech claims that impurities in the weak-magnet 99% aluminum alloy of any CD's storage side contain strong-magnet elements of iron, nickel and cobalt -- as does the ink on the label side --that are inductively magnetized while repeatedly spinning inside a player. This is said to inhibit the laser's ability to pick up signal and instead triggers the error correction interpolation mechanism for reduced S/N ratio.
Unlike the Bedini which actively spins the CD over two beams, the Furutech RD-1 (and its replacement, the RD-2) use a powerful ring magnet. It first ramps up voltage to magnetize the CD resting stationary above, then reverses polarity to demagnetize the charge in what's referred to as a "loop ebbing" process.
I think that you need a magnet or body the size of the sun to effectively bend or affect light, so I fail to see how any miniscule magnetic field set up by minute iron particles in a spinning label is going to affect the laser in the reader!
I think that we need a more "plausible" explanation!
Thanks for your reply. I see a lot of unbelievers here but I have a box of tweeks that don't work. I think this one is worth a try. What the hell it is for the betterment of audio right!
This is a link that both i and Geoff Kait have posted here previously. http://www.physics.umd.edu/lecdem/services/demos/demosk2/k2-46.htm
As to the Bedini, i've found that it basically "blackens the background" of the disc i.e. lowers the noise floor. By lowering the noise floor, resolution is increased and small details can be more easily discerned. It is a subtle difference and is far from permanent.
Those using the original "hand held" Bedini Clarifiers need to "demag" the disc for a relatively long period of time. Given that you have to manually hold the switch, it is a nuisance. When i purchased an Ultra Clarifier and heard the results / saw how long the automatic sequence was, i realized that i wasn't running the hand-held Clarifier for a long enough period of time.
As a side note, i regularly treat the cd tray on my transports / players with an anti-static spray. I first spray it onto a soft cloth and then wipe it onto the tray. I absolutely DO NOT recommend spraying anything directly onto the tray or into the player itself. Sean
Am I the only one that has the ORIGINAL Bendini Clarififer? It said it was for LASER DISCs. It was a hand held model that used a nine Volt battery. I still have it and still use it on CD's I find harsh sounding in the high end. I say it works but then I still use CD stoplight ,,Optimix and Monster sound rings on some of my harsh sounding or AAD Cd's too.
Here is some more info. Actual testing, in the lab.http://www.furutech.com/news/RD-2%20web.htm
Qdrone, I have found that if a Cd is Harsh or bright sounding, if it is spun in the Bedini clarifier it usually will still sound harsh and bright, in some cases worse.
I ran across this Article from IAR review
. Long but interesting.
I recorded the original CD on to Yamaha CDR-HD1500 harddrive, then used a Quadri Beam Ultra Clarifier on one side, recorded again, and then A-B compared. It definitely was better, clearer, more detail, less veiled on my system. Then did both sides, and was even better. Quadri is supposed to be noticeably better than the dual beam.
After about 800 CD's, the motor has quit. I am buying a new one.
Going back to the mid-90's, I tried balance rings and slip on edge rings that made no discernible difference to me. But then I heard about using a bulk tape eraser. I decided to try it- $20 at Radio Shack, why not? The results blew me away! I liken it to listening with a cartridge set at the wrong tracking force and then correcting it. Amazing but true.
My brother works at the division of Sony that makes CDs, DVDs and blu-ray. He showed me the manufacturing process for CD's years ago. The disc is molded with the pits in place. Then Aluminum is atomically sputtered onto the polycarbonate disc. A second disc is placed over the aluminum and sealed. CDs can last a long time but are not archival. ie. when that seal breaks the Al will corrode. So back up your favored music. He says there is an analog like component to CDs despite being digital. But he wasn't impressed with my bulk tape eraser story- same response as any normal person to our audiophile obsession.
I have been treating my CD's with this bulk tape eraser for the past 14 years now.
Some time has passed since this thread was updated. Does anyone have any more thoughts on the Bedini ultra Clarifier Quadri Beam? I found one of these for sale on another site and was curious about them.
I bought a bulk tape erase at RS in the mid 90s for $20. I didn't expect much and planned to return it after experimenting with it. I still use that bulk tape eraser on every CD that I have. It made a significant difference with my old CD transport back then and even with my new CD player that I bought a few years ago. I expected it to not be nearly as effective with my new CD player but it turned out to be nearly as effective. All the theories aside, I hear less distortion, kind of like the difference between a dirty phono needle and a clean one when I demagnetize the discs. I normally demag my discs immediately after purchase. Just a few months ago, I played a couple of discs w/o demagnetizing them first. Then went back and did it. I still hear a clear improvment. So, if you cannot afford the higher priced tweaks, try snagging a bulk tape eraser. What I have never had the chance to try is a comparison between my $20 tweak and the more expensive versions.