There *is* no justification from dropping 5 large on an interconnect cable. C'mon, think about it, you slap this uber-expensive cable between a source and the preamp and then the little bitty wires in the preamp pick up the signal and do their part to transfer it through the various stages in the preamp and then out to the power amp.
Until, and if, the wiring in the preamp is upgraded to "magic wire" status, installing a $5k interconnect is simply a fool's game. IMHO, of course...
If you can justify $5000 shirt or $30,000 dress, almost same could be applied to cables. Dude, I love $900pr of Prada shoes while many would stay OK for $75 Hush Puppies! At the same time comfortable and nice looking wear can be acquired at least by dropping 2 trailing zeros, so that figures for wires too. The fancy ones are created only for fassion and extraordinary looks on your system, not for performance.
RW, you are right. I am totally with you.
If all these magic cables are superior to the internal wire of pre-amplifier or amplifier, why pre-amplifier or amplifier designers don't upgrade the internal wire to these magic cables?
I have a friend who works in the luxury goods / fashion industry. One time he was in the high ranked position at PRADA. He admits that people do pay a LOT for visual pleasure and touching enjoyment and people are willing to pay that much for their psychological satisfaction.
I pay a lot for my audio equipment to enhance my listening delight. The EDGE amplifier and Counterpoint SA-11 pre-amplifier I possess, they all have high price tags. Also I was one of the earlier Beta testers of Stealth’s cable more than 10 years ago. But I just can not justify myself to pay for the super expensive cables from Purist Audio Design. By the information Purist Audio Design provided, the Dominus cable is cryoed and stranded multi-gauge alloy in 18 AWG with special shielding. 18 AWG! My current cable is pure 6N silver in 16AWG at much realistic price. By my calculation, the cross section of 16AWG cable is more than 2.5 times of the cross section of 18AWG cable, what kind of technology can surpass these fundamental differences in Physics? Until more detail information is provided, I am still in the non-believer camp.
Get a Genesis from Purist Audio Design I bought one for $310 love it. Also the Acoustic Zen WOW for $211.00 is nice too.
Hello Otto - I am not at all certain what information you need for "your" justification, but Purist Audio is a very reputable company and the lead designer, Jim Aud is very accessable by phone or email. They do publish their specifications and treatments of cables, design and use their own alloys ( Dominus is a copper/silver/gold alloy), design their own dielectrics, and make their own connectors. Purist cables are one of the few that I know that are actually designed by a degreed, scientific engineer - someone that has the legitimate "chops" to discuss their designs and materials. We all wish that cables would not cost as much as they do, but Purist Audio has many less expensive models in their product line as well - all very well detailed and documented as to materials and design.
Cryoed, Shielding, Materials, Engineering, Technology, AWG, Watever would never justify multikilobuck except for Fassion.
For Performance double digits for wires can bring you to peak.
At the very beginning, I mentioned that I can pay for technologies like amorphous metal alloys from Stealth or the battery-biased designs of Audioquest. Because those companies explain the technologies they employ to their cables to convince customers.
Now for Purist Audio Design,
Treatment: Cryoed. It is not uncommon these days. You can even send your tubes to receive cryo treatment.
Shielding: Only a few cables use AIR as shielding. The majority of the rest cables all have their special shielding. What does it make Purist Audio Design shielding unique?
Materials: copper/silver/gold alloy. How precious this alloy is? At least Stealth let us know how difficult to make amorphous metal.
I am not against Dominus cable. On the contrary, I am interested in acquiring it. For me, I just don't have the information can persuade me to do such purchase.
Like The Radiant Light Source (RLS) technology Purist Audio Design so proud of not long ago, they did not explain the source of the designed illuminating light. How can you make people believe without any energy source that a designed illuminating light can long last in a cable? If it depends on natural lighting, how would it function during the night? For me, it is as mysterious as David Cooperfiled walks through the Great Wall.
Yu11375, this is from some review/interview with the Purist Audio dude.
"Purist's most advanced technology uses a light source to illuminate the
cable's dielectric, which produces an ethereal three-dimensional soundfield
that sounds like surround sound from two channels. The Radiant Light
Source (RLS) cables basically add this optical illumination to the company's
award-winning (the absolute sound's 2003 Golden Ear Award Winner for
Interconnect and Loudspeaker Cables) Dominus cables. The Purist web
site describes the RLS cables thusly: "The Radiant Light Cable
System, newly introduced by Purist Audio Design in 1998, is the only
system of its kind in the world. It takes the already superb Dominus cable
and adds a special form of radiant-optical fiber. These optical fibers are
illuminated by a specially designed light source and radiate light around the
conductors. The light changes the properties of the insulation surrounding
the conductors, thus minimizing distortion in music reception.
The result can best be described as a dramatic lowering of the cable's
noise floor. Micro dynamics that previously lay buried in low-level
background noise are revealed. The nuance of musical emotion is laid bare
as never before. The stunning improvement achieved through the Radiant
Light system affords the reality of a musical experience unlike any enjoyed
I asked Jim if the RLS design had any similarity to the battery-biased
designs like Audioquest's Big Cat series of cables, but he indicated it was a
different concept. He described the concept of dielectric biasing as older
technology developed by Western Electric in the 1930s. And in case you
were wondering, the RLS technology comes at a price: $7350 for a one-
meter pair of RCA-terminated interconnect cables, with an extra $2500 for
the RLS power supply."
Hello i am actually owner mostly of PAD cables including DOMINUS and CANORUS I.C. i am not saying they are the last word in cabling but for me , in my system they work better let say then the STEALTH cables even the SAKRA. If you can get them used or demo at nearly half price just listen to them and forget about the technology and be prepared to get into a "3 D" sensual and organic experience.....
I'm not sure if the point of this thread is to argue the value of high price cables or to make a real selection. If you are serious about Purist, my suggestion would be to evaluate the cable and let it stand on its own two feet. What other way is there? If it turns out to be the best sounding cable for you, get it. If not then look elseware. A few years ago I was interrested in Purist myself and tried them in my system and along with some other cables. If you don't have a local dealer, you can use The Cable Company. I've used them many times. Their lending program is excellent. They'll send out anything you want to try so there's no risk of making a bad choice.
That said, the Dominus is expensive, by any standard. Only you can judge weather it is a good value. Personally, I wouldn't consider buying something like that without listening to it first. Would you buy a pair of $900 Prada shoes without trying them on? I did. The 2nd pair fits a hell of alot better than the 1st. Sore feet or sore ears? Painful either way.
Why don't you listen to the Purist Audio cables? It's great to look at a website...listening will give you the best info. BTW...have your checkbook ready. I doubt you even need to go up to Dominus...try Proteus Provectus Praesto or Ventustas...It's reasonable...and killer good.
Use your ears...vs your eyes is my 2 cents...
Thank you Geoffkait. I had read that interview before I posted this thread.
Actually I am ordering the Ventustas to start this experiment. After that I will contact The Cable Company for some serious comparison as Zd542 suggested.
Again I am not against Purist Audio Design. Don't we have the right to KNOW as consumers? For such highly priced product, should more detail information be provided?
Thank you all for your inputs.
Have a nice weekend!
"Again I am not against Purist Audio Design. Don't we have the right to KNOW as consumers? For such highly priced product, should more detail information be provided?"
Some info might be proprietary, if you know what I mean, otherwise I thought the article described the light cables fairly well.
To the OP
I think you made a good choice. Once you try CC's lending program, you'll never do it any other way. I'm pretty sure the Ventustas is the one they sent me when I tried Purist. Also, they may make alternate suggestions. I always go for them, myself. Even is I end up not liking them, I always learn alot from the experience. The only other thing I can say is that if you don't like what you hear or are not sure, don't buy anything. You can always spend the money (For me, that's always the easy part).
To every one else:
I read the explanation on how the lights shining on the dielectric yield better sound quality. I could be wrong but I don't buy it. It may very well be a great sounding cable, but is it because of the lights? I doubt it. Are they lying? I don't know that either. Maybe they think its the lights but its really something else. Just to note, I'm not one of those people who argue if cables make a difference. I don't believe that they make a difference, I know they make a difference. Sometimes, though, cable companies do make some wild claims. For me, this is the most wild one that I've ever herd. Would I buy them? If I was shopping for something in this price range and I thought it was the best sounding cable; yes.
You make a good (and valid) point. You may be right, but I would think that any proprietary technology that Purist, or any other cable company comes up with, would certainly get a patent. I know many other cable manufacturers get patents on their designs. They always make it a point to list them in their ads.
Wonderful cable,open,dynamic,quiet love it.Nobody pays full list!!
Thank God and Zd542! I am not the only one puzzled by the mysterious light!
Below are few sentences from George Cardas in a interview regarding his "Clear" series cable with SoundStage published in June 2010.
"While many manufacturers hide their designs behind a wall of secrecy, claiming “proprietary” material science and geometries, George Cardas & Co. were happy to discuss what all these terms mean, and how they implement them in the Clears. Let’s examine each more closely."
What a totally different approach! Only brave accept confrontation with confidence.
By the way, Ventustas interconnect cable will be here next Monday. I will post my findings in a month.
I've got the PAD Venustas speaker cables. I never thought in a thousand years I'd pay north of $2700 bucks for cables. But after auditioning them, and many others, from the cable company I could not deny the level of quality or ability that came with them. Yes their website is weak, their product however is quite strong. JMO.
Last_lemming hope you don't pay retail for Purist! Most Purist dealers charge customers 30% or less off retail! Don't overpay!!!!!!
This seems like the "expensive" v. "overpriced" concepts at work. IMO, something is overpriced if you can buy something just as good for less money. If you can't, while the item may be expensive, it's not overpriced. But, and this is a big but - is the price of the item you know is better worth the difference over the lesser product to you personally? I think the BMW 5 series is considerably nicer than the 3 series, but to me, I can't justify the 20K price difference. So it's a question of what the improvement is worth to you personally, weighed against the difference in price.
Its great to hear that the cables worked out OK for you. Also, trying out a bunch of cables at the same time, should give you piece of mind knowing you made the right choice. (Not like when you are in a casino and say to yourself "I hope last bet works out or I won't have any gas money to get home.")
Also, if you don't mind, what else did you try out and why did you end up going for the PAD cables. That kind of info is always good. Personally, I don't really trust magazine reviews.
I paid about 30% under list. I had long runs of about 14 feet.
I tried synergistic research, other PAD lineups from the lower ended line - Menustas I do believe and the one right above it. Can't rember which SR it was, but it came with different bullets you interchange to adjust sound and a wall plug to energize the cord or something like that. Another one was a cardas golden reference.
I don't rember the specific pros and cons of each off the top of my head. None were horrible. What I do rember is that when I put on the Venustas I was like "that's it" that's what I'm looking for. The other thing I noticed, that I didn't want to, is that as you go up in the PAD lineup it just keeps getting better.
My Venustas replaced my Kimber 8tc's. The kimbers gave my system a leaner sound that tilted towards the highs, but very detailed.
I wish I could guarantee the PADs would work for you, but every system is different so they may or may not be to your liking.
All my cables are about 1/7 my system cost. This doesn't seem out of line for a high end system, and if your system is very revealing then better cables will make a difference one way or another. I'm sure at some point there is dimenishing returns, and that's where I feel i am right now.
Btw I just realized I mistyped, I paid $2100, not $2700.
Yes, there is another pure silver interconnect cable will arrive next Monday.
The Venustas interconnect cable is in my system for almost 10 days. I will hold my tongue until it is ready to be seriously audited. There are some folks in my area will join me for fun comparison.
Be sure you give the Purists their break in time. It truly does make a difference. It might take at least 100 hours or so.
Otto (Yu11375) many have tried to help you, I think it is high time you report back with your experience about the Venustas. I see so many OP open a new thread and other chime, the OP leaves every body in the dark with his experience, so just asking but not giving anything back, hmmm?
First of all, Jim Aud is by far the most social person I ever met in the world of Audio. Second he understands music and audio. The quality of his products are far above average. Still you have to listen to it. Because you are the only person who can Judge for your set. For this kind of amounts you need to take time. And have fun....
Purist Cables are actually quite good. They are highly colored (recessed highs), but have a very expansive midrange...the lows can be good if you're willing to pay for the expensive ones. They very much have a tube sound....if you set up your system to your liking, Purist cables will make it more tube-like which you might not like after all. You must listen to cables in your own system to determine if they are right for you
I second what Stingreen said. I just recently auditioned the latest version of the Venustas. The sound was very smooth and the backgrounds very black. My main issue was that the music sounded a bit diffused to me. The instruments and vocals lost some of their focus and the size of the images became too big. Perhaps if I had a bigger room this effect would help fill the room and give an expansive sound but in my small room I prefer a more intimate sounding cable with better focus and imaging. So far, my Acoustic Zen Silver Ref II still is my goto interconnect. Its sound is very smooth and organic with lots of detail and focus. I may have to move up to the Absolutes.
To me the PAD Dominus interconnects are just right. I needed another set of interconnects for my turntable. I had a moment of doubt where I thought I could get by with something cheaper. I went shopping with The Cable Company. I had them send 3 different sets of cables. I listen to all of them and I only liked the lower line PAD cable but I had been listening to my Dominus cables so the lower line just did not do it for me. I sent all of them back.
Thanks for your inputs to share your experiences.
I still waiting for another cable.
I didn't forget about this and do appreciate helps and suggestions from the members here.
Personally I slightly agree with stringreen and tboooe that the Venustas in my system is colored. It floated the music too much to the degree it lost its focus.
For the past year, I switched my speaker from Piega P-10 to Monata EPX and my source from Resolution CD-55 to Ayon CD-5s. That's the reason I haven't post my update to the group.
There is one cable design claims his cable is smoother than Dominus. The cable will arrive in one week. Let's wait and see.
Now I am ready to provide my updates
First, my gears
Source: Ayon CD5s
Amplifier: EDGE NL Signature 1.2 mono blocks
Speaker: Montana EPX
Cable under review:
1. Purist Audio Design(PAD) Proteus Provectus Revision
2. Crystal Clear Magnum Opus
3. Cerious Technologies Nano Reference
First, Back in early 2001 when Stealth was not as famous as it is now, I was one of their early customers. The cables were sold at affordable prices. Now look at Stealth's cable, I can't pay such sky-high priced cables. All these years, I am searching for the cables from the next "Stealth".
Secondly, personally I really like the open soundstage and details silver cable provides me. On the other hand, I appreciate the weight of tone copper cable produces. General speaking I would focus on soundstage.
For the past whole year, I put both Proteus Provectus and Magnum Opus cables alternatively in my system. At more than one occasion, I just felt that Proteus Provectus gives too much echoing effects to smooth the sound. No doubt it is beautiful nonetheless the details are sacrificed too much.
For now, I am using between Magnum Opus and Nano Reference as my source can act like pre-amplifier to switch cables.