Pure Music Question

I have a question about how to use Pure Music with a wireless system. I currently have three systems, one using an Airport Express and two using Apple TV's connected to external DAC's. Music resides in a 1 TB hard drive connected via an Apple Airport wireless. Everything is controlled by iTunes running on an iMac using an iPod Touch with the Remote app.

I have downloaded the Pure Music demo and run into a hitch. It launches seamlessly but fails to play through any of the "speakers" I have selected in iTunes. When playing straight through iTunes without PM, no problem. It does play through my iMac speakers and I think sounds like a big improvement, but who listens through internal desktop speakers?

I have been able to highjack the PM stream and direct it to my systems using Airfoil, but short of using a desktop controller on my iPod Touch, nothing else works. PM seems like a great and reasonably priced upgrade, but to make it practical, I need to be able to use my Touch to control iTunes remotely while PM is running. I have spoken with PM's tech support, but no luck.

Any ideas?
Did you try hitting the reset button? I know you probably have but thought I would suggest just in case you haven't
Since Pure Music is playing the file instead of iTunes I seriously doubt it will ever play through the speakers you have selected in iTunes. What do you mean by "nothing else works." Are you saying PM somehow blocks you from controlling iTunes?

Thanks for the replies. I have tried the reset to no avail. Herman: By "nothing else works" I just meant that nothing I have tried other than highjacking the stream from PM using Airfoil has directed a signal to any of my remote receivers (Airport Express, Apple TV's). I think your point is well taken regarding the iTunes speaker selection. On a wired system, when using PM, where does the signal "originate", i.e. it has to get to the digital or analogue outputs somehow.

Since PM still allows you to control your library though iTunes, I would think there has to be a way to use iTunes to direct the PM stream somehow. As you can gather, I am pretty green on IT matters.

Your help is appreciated.
PM uses the output device selected in the Audio Midi Setup program found in your Applications-Utilities folder. If nothing else is attached it will use the built in output which would be the optical or analog jack on the computer. If you have any USB or Firewire audio devices it will allow you to select those as the output device.

If you select hog mode in the PM preferences - advanced audio setup then you set the Audio Midi to built in output and select your device from within those advanced settings.

PM doesn't use any part of iTunes to actually play the file so it seams impossible it could allow iTunes to control where the stream goes. Airport Extremes are limited to 16/44.1K anyway so you could not use any of the upsampling features of PM or play higher resolution files.

Thanks Herman. Sounds like I am SOL. It would appear that my only Apple compatible option would be to switch out the Apple TV's with Apple Mini's.

Thanks for your response.
Bbopman, Pure Music just released yet again a software update to correct a glitch in their previous version that resulted in no sound output.
Download the newest version and read the manual, if you care to investigate. It might be the problem.
Thanks for the replies. I will try downloading the new update. I was able to get PM to play remotely by highjacking the signal and directing it to my Airport Express/Apple TV's using Airfoil software. The demo sounds very good, so I will probably pull the trigger to buy the software. Hard to go wrong at $129.

Thanks again
Bbopman, PM does not work with WiFi yet. They are apparently working on it (I spoke to them). Apple has some encryption involved that blocks "third party" software access to the WiFi stream. Airfoil does allow you to hack into the WiFi stream and thus use PM, but I found that it compressed things sonically. Amarra does work without Airfoil due to the pecularities of its software design (uses some aspects of Itunes whereas PM apparently does not).
Thanks Agear. The PM users "manual" states that some users have reported success using highjack software, others not. I sent an inquiry to Amoeba who make the Airfoil software program and their reply indicates that Airoil broadcasts at 16/44.1, so it would seem that if PM offers any improvement to redbook standard files, then it would be audible even over wireless (and is to my admittedly middle age ears). OTOH, Amoeba states that any upsampled or high resolution files would be compressed to 16/44.1. Since I don't have any such high rez files, I guess I am content with using PM with Airfoil, even if it is clunky and I may only be hearing a placebo effect brought on by shelling out $129.

Thanks for your reply.
Bbopman, I am primarily a Redbook man as well (600+ CDs) and feel no real compulsion to pursue Hi Rez at this time. I have Redbook CDs that blows away hi rez material I have heard (24/176). Most of the music I know and love is in that format already and I am not willing to fork out the $ for hi rez duplicates. Paul Weitzel from TRL (the maker of my pre-amp) has done a lot of recording for Sony and others and says that their is plenty of resolution in Redbook. The problem is primarily one of execution/implementation.

I did fiddle with PM and Airfoil and found that combination shrunk the soundstage and was anemic sounding. Weird.

Placebo? LOL....could well be.....95%+ of audio could be thrown into that category....
Installed Pure Music last night. Sounds better than standard itunes with Memory "on" IMO, but I had problems using the itouch remote. Every time I selected a song, I had to press "play" where before it just started playing. Also, I couldn't fast-forward any tracks. Then, "play" wouldn't work at all! Pure Music recommends using the "less is more" function to eliminate "hand shaking" with itunes, but you have to control all commands from the computer using the mouse. I'm not getting up to go to the computer every time I want to make a command. That's what the $280 remote control is for. Am I doing something wrong?
One more thing.....I "reset" Pure Music and selected it again. I can now change tracks and fast-forward again. It seems to me they have more issues to work out. Worth $130? Yeah I guess, considering all the money I've spent on this stuff, what's an extra $130? I'm sure the problems will get fixed eventually, but until they do, I'm not sure I want to buy it.
Devilboy: Where does one find the app for the iTouch? I looked both in the iTunes store and on the PM website and didn't find it.

thanks for your help.
I guess I thought that Pure Music had its own controller application. I guess you are referring to the Apple "Remote" app and using it to control iTunes/Pure Music. My mistake. Will try the Remote app with PM running to see how it works. Sorry for the confusion.
Bbopman, the remote App works fine with PM. The only thing is you cannot make use of the digital volume control which is no loss since it degrades the sound anyway IMO.
Another nice remote app for the iPad is yTrack. As far as I can tell it's the first app built from the ground up to utilize the full screen of the iPad, rather than just 2X-ing the Remote app to get the same thing just pixelated bigger. There are some needed features yet to come on yTrack that the developer is working on this month and hopes to go into beta in September. But it's still a usable app as it is and lets you get a feel for what it can be. There is more about this app on Computer Audiophile if you are interested.
Very nice Timztunz. I am planning on snagging a Pad. I will look for that app. Does it work on N-networks? I know the Remote app does not....
Just another data point on Pure Music with wireless. I found that music from PM through Airfoil through Airport Express was an improvement over iTunes airtuning to AE. Was a little surprised, pleasantly so, about that. PM made overall improvements, like any upgrade that reduces distortion. Better defined bass, less cuppiness around the midrange, sweet sounds sang more freely and were sweeter, because of fewer rough edges. Spaces sometimes sounded quieter. These were minor improvements, but $130 seems reasonable for any upgrade whose effects are clearly noticeable.
Jayboard, I have found the same to be true. The improvements are not subtle. I was skeptical about a piece of software effecting wireless music reproduction. I thought it was simply a matter of reconstructing the 1 and 0s. Steve Nugent at Empirical Audio (a former Intel chip engineer) told me otherwise. He was right.
Hey All, I have a question about PM. Can I use all these features with Apple TV 1? I know the new Apple TV streams everything...so you're probably out of luck. But Apple TV 1 is basically a mini harddrive. Can I upsample and get the same benifits through my DAC? (the same as I would plugging direct into the MAC? Thanks for your advise.
I don't think so. WiFi is still limited to 16/44.1 whether its an airport express or apple tv....
Got it, thanks Agear. Might have to wait on this until I upgrade to the mini mac.
Can Pure Music be used with a Squeezebox Touch that receives music over wifi? Based on various things I've read on these forums and in reviews, I was under the impression that it could. But the messages in this thread seem mixed on that. Could it be that there has been an upgrade that makes that possible now?

I just downloaded Pure Music and it plays on my computer. But I can't tell for sure if it is sending the music to my SQ Touch via Pure, or if its just iTunes. Is there any way to know for sure? There is nothing in the Touch screen to suggest it is doing anything different. On my computer monitor, it shows that it is playing from Pure M. Help?
Can you stream Pure Music to SQ Touch over wireless? The Pure Music website is rather confusing about this, but I've read in reviews of the Touch that it works well with Pure Music. I just downloaded it, and it seems to be working when I play music directly on my computer. And I'm able to play both Pure and iTunes directly on the computer, and can tell which is which both by the improved sound of Pure and by the fact that the PAUSE symbol doesn't show up over the PLAY symbol when playing a song.

But I can't tell for sure if what is now being sent to my Touch is the Pure Music or just iTunes. There's nothing on the Touch screen that suggests a change. After installing Pure Music, do you need to make any adjustments to anything (like the SQ server) to tell it to use Pure instead of iTunes?

After writing to Pure Music and getting some input from the Computer Audiophile forum, I found out that SQ Touch and Pure Music are different types of computer audio that don't work together. There's some possibility of using Air Foil to somehow work around this, but the consensus seems to be that this is alot of hassle. Too bad because I really like the improvement Pure Music makes over iTunes when heard through my crummy iMac speakers and would love to get that on my main system. But apparently the SQ server and Pure Music are alternative ways of playing files, so its one or the other.If anyone has been able to use PM with their Touch it would be good to know.
That's what I figured. Why not make your life easy and just use mac products? Airport Express, Iphone/Itouch as a remote, and a wifi router (I use an Airport Extreme). You will still need Airfoil if you want to use PM. That's what I do...