Sarcher30, This is what PS Audio posted on their forum from Ted on your posting.
"Yeh the club's speakers weren't up for the bass. They didn't want to run the integrated amp more than 3/4 of the way up and they used an unbalanced connection. The DS volume was being controlled by a fellow in the first row. I don't know how often it was at 100 or not. For some I was turning the volume down on the laptop when people indicated to or seemed to be in distress.
On a few tracks there was a difference in opinion with the people who were sitting nearer the front that those standing in the rear. Some members tried lots of places in the room, some didn't. The biggest difference to my mind was that in the room the front could be too loud at the same time that the rear was, perhaps, too quiet.
The designer of the speakers didn't like the setup and moved them at the break, unfortunately I don't have any idea what he didn't like or how the change affected the sound.
As to soft, after most had left the head bangers thought Alice in Chains and Porcupine Tree sounded great :)" |
Gentlemen, most of these impressions are from DS that have less then 50 hours on them and at best a little over that. Wait until there is at least a good 100+, but I would expect that the DS might need as much as its predecessor the PW to show its true nature, so 400-500 hours would not be out of line.
Some of the reports that mention the softness etc, are from people that have reported that the PW needed 400-500 hours to show how it truly sounded.
Check post 923. He mentions how it is starting to improve etc.
http://www.psaudio.com/forum/directstream-all-about-it/directstream-dac-first-impressions/page-31/ |
Larrybou, Interesting comments, thank you.
I believe that everything is converted to 10 times DSD. Whatever that means... |
I was also at the demonstration for the entire time. My thoughts are along the same lines as Sarcher30. I thought the depth of the soundstage was excellent in relative comparison to the stock player. The jury is still out for me. Listening in a room with a bunch of folks is always difficult and I would need to listen in my own room with a direct A/B comparison before I could fairly comment. |
Goose, Thank you, for your thoughts and opinion.
The original hype from PS Audio was that, "it is a game changer"! I was under the impression that as soon as it was turned on the improved sound quality would be unmistakable. |
That's my post, #923.. The DS is not rolled off or soft on top..It does need a lot of burn in..any other questions? |
Trying to judge the sound in a room full of bodies is difficult at best.
One of our audio club members had the club over to hear his system in his dedicated room that had room treatments just done by one of the best in the industry.
It was my first time that I heard his system. When the room was filled the system was very unimpressive. But once the seating was brought down to a more realistic level it was like we were in a total different room and system. |
A friend who is also a reviewer has a DS in for review. He is doing some burn in at the moment.
I will be able to hear the DS sometime over the next few weeks. I will be able to compare the DS with some other DACs in his system that I am familiar with.
I was one of the first to own the PSA PerfectWave and then did the upgrade to the MKII. I sold the PW MKII about a year ago because at the time I felt that there were other DACs that were passing the PW by in sound quality and the lack of DSD playback.
At the time I bought the exaSound e20 MKIII with the .082 Clock upgrade (definitely makes a difference). With an upgraded outboard power supply (I did a Paul Hynes) it competes with DACs costing twice as much in IMO.
I find the DS very intriguing. In some ways it takes a similar approach to the handling of the music files as Playback Designs, Meitner and EMM Labs. But adds its own twist.
I hope it sounds as great as it is made out to be. |
I also hope to hear a DS at one, possible two, more fellow audiophiles systems over the next few weeks.
There will be opportunities to hear other well regarded DACs in those systems also. MSB and Lampizator as examples.
So the next few weeks should be very interesting when it comes to DACs. |
Hifial, Thank you for your information.
You said you sold your PWMKII because there was better sounding Dac's but I have seen others posting that the PW MK11 sounds better than the new Direct stream.
I look forward to your continuing comments. |
Hifial,thanks for the comments. I for one would love to hear of a comparative review of the Lampizator and the PS Audio Direct Stream dac's... seeing these two are at the top of my digital upgrade list. |
Ozzy, do not read too much into those postings that the PW sounds better then the DS. I believe all of those postings are based on DS that have very little burn in hours on them. Even the PW needed to have 400+ hours on it to reach its full potential.
Even now there are postings about how the sound is evolving as more hours are on their DS.
Until there are 400+ hours on these DS on think the jury is still out.
Just like a Lampizator that has new Duelund Caps it will take 400-500 hours of play before it will sound its best.
Remember, the DS design uses transformers in the low signal output pathway and they will take many hours to burn in somewhat like the Duelund caps. |
"Remember, the DS design uses transformers in the low signal output pathway and they will take many hours to burn in somewhat like the Duelund caps."
Wonder when the mod guys will start replacing the cheap Edcor trannies with Jensens or Lundahls. |
Kana813 Funny, I was thinking the same thing just last night.
I was thinking, OK what can be upgraded? Caps, power supply, fuses etc. And how much of, if any, improvement will it bring. |
I think I remember Ted Smith saying that the output transformers are part of the output filter. Changing them out would change the filter as well. Who knows if that would be advisable or not? |
Descriptions of sounds are mostly meaningless. You have to actually hear them to understand. |
Hifial,
After reading the many PS Audio claims and accolades on this product, I don't recall they ever stated that it would take many hours of burn in to sound better than their previous product. The impression I got was that, as soon as the unit was plugged in you could tell instantly the superior sound improvement.
So, with blind faith I have one on order and hope to get it in a couple of weeks.
Now, I truly believe that all components sound better after they have been used (burned in) for awhile. Heck, I even own an Audiodharma cable cooker.
Now, you and others are stating that it needs many hours of burn in to sound better than the previous model, the PW II.
It is a little unnerving to have prepaid for an item with this rocky ("hope and change") kind of performance. Not to mention that it costs a little more than chump change.
So, I thank you for your posting and I guess I'll just have to try it for myself. Yet, I still have to wonder how you can design a product without knowing the final result? |
Ozzy,
I wish you a better outcome than what " hope and change " has yielded.
Good Luck,
Charles, |
With all due respect to new innovations in digital audio (this is only one more step forward in what has been a very large number of improvements over the years), if you already like what you are hearing from your system right NOW, it is in no way "obsolete": after hearing an SHM-SACD of Steely Dan's "AJA" the other day, i was so startled by the holographic imaging and the lack of any false notes, i concluded Yet Again that improvements in software is the simplest and the least expensive way of re-visiting what your system is capable of. Although
$45 isn't cheap either, but whatever "they" did to this disc, it was definitely a huge improvement. |
Ozzy: You have zero risk buying the PS Audio Direct Stream DAC since PS Audio has a 100% money back return policy. If the unit does not sound okay, you can return it and get your money back. In addition, PS Audio Customer Support is terrific if you need it.
Please see this link for the PS Audio return policy.
http://www.psaudio.com/returns-and-security/
I agree with you that many hi-end units require a break in time. For example, I own the Ayre QB-9 DSD DAC and their manual says the unit requires about 100-500 hours of break in time. My unit sounded much better after about 200 hours of use. It is fully broken in now and sounds terrific.
When you get the unit, please give us your impressions out of the box and again after some break in time. |
Thanks, Charles1dad, French fries, Hgeifman, and Bsme85,for your comments.
I am not shy of returning things that don't impress. After all, I have been banned from Audio Advisor.
It is good to know that PS Audio stands behind there products. I guess the 2 things that I am concerned with is, the possible loss of high frequency extension. (I love hearing the smash of a cymbal). And the reduction of dynamics. Both of these items have been commented about on different forums. |
+1French fries regarding the varying quality of the actual CD/SACD. When mastered and produced with a high level of care they can sound quite wonderful and engaging.
Charles, |
First formal review of the Directstream http://www.audiophilia.com/wp/?p=13620 |
Wish Karl would have compared the DS to some DACs other than the PWD. |
Thank's for posting that link, Erikminer.
Regards, |
Erikminer, Yes thanks for the link. |
Thanks to Erik as well for posting that link.
Kana813:
In early June I will be running a comparison (personal, not connected with any publication) to decide my ideal DAC. Of course system synergy, and personal preference have so much to do with the final decision. But I have acquired some top tier DAC's and will gladly report my findings.
Incoming:
Lampizator Big6
Accustic Arts Tube DAC 2 mk 2
Empirical Audio OverDrive SE
Jeff Rowland Aeris
PS Audio DirectStream
I can't wait!!!
To be honest, I think the DirectStream is the underdog. But the guys from PS Audio claim it can play with the big boys; so let's see. I know the list is not top tier, mega dollar Wadia, MSB, DCS, Esoteric gear. But for red book CD and 16/44 files, I think what I have coming in is pretty much the best there currently is to offer..... |
Just to avoid conflict.
I should correct that to say:
"Amongst" the best there currently is to offer..... |
I won't hold my breath, but the DACs I'd most like to see the DS compared to are the Meitner, Bricasti, MSB Analog DAC and Auralic Vega. |
Mattnshilp, Your review with those Dacs would be great!
Drubin. Check out PS Audio Website. A new owner of the DS has compared the DS to Meitner, and the Auralic Vega. He sold them and kept the DS!
There is also to be an upcoming review of the PS Audio DirectStream in 6 Moons.
I should have my DS unit in the next couple of weeks. I can compare it to a Bryston BDA-2 Dac and the Dac inside of my Cary SACD 306 SACD. |
Drubin: your list is appropriate and comparable to the DS in many ways. Actually a much more appropriate comparison list then the one I created. I actually have a friend who might bring his Meitner MA-1 for me to try as well.
My goal is to audition higher level dac's that are sort of catering to red book and 16/44 files, not DSD or up sampled PCM. Most on my list are between $8K and $10k . I want to see if the DS can truly compete with bigger guns, as Paul M from PS Audio claims . In an interview, he said that his DS compared favorably (read "sounded better") then a $30K DAC they tried in their listening room.
I'll share my findings happily
Out of curiosity, how many songs do you guys usually use for your gear comparisons? I have a song list on Amarra with 15-20 songs and I actually think its too many truthfully. I'm thinking 5 well chosen songs would be much more effective Considering my 20 songs take about 2 hours to listen to, I find that my brain doesn't have the capacity to remember specific nuances of an earlier song by the time the later songs come . |
Mattnshilp,
From PF:
"Positive Feedback Online Fair warning: This may end up being real competition to the Playback Designs MPD-3 and MPD-5 DSD DACs, my current reference standards. I'll give it a week or so to fully warm up...I'll work it out with numerous DSD and PCM sources, to check this."
AudioStream is also working on a review. |
Matt,
I would feel very comfortable comparing the Lampizator Big 6 against the MSB, DCS and Esoteric " upper tier" DACs based on music reproduction criteria as opposed to a "hifi" check list. It will depend on what you're looking for. Your impressions will be interesting to read.
Charles, |
Charles1dad:
I chose my DAC list based on each units strong reputation as a wonderfully musical piece of kit. Emotional and involving. I am sure that all 5, in the right system, with the right synergy, could produce best-in-show performance at RMAF. They are all going to be great, so my opinion will be based on my other gear, cables, room, accessories, etc.
But my system is pretty resolving, so I think its a good opportunity for others to use what I find....
Happy to answer any questions via this forum, PM or email. |
Mattnshilp - I would have pulled a very similar list to yours. I'm looking forward to the eventual post. |
Any updates on reviews or comparisons? |
There really is something to this Lampy obsession. They are wonderful DAC's!! I received my Big6 today and it's sound is simply breathtaking! The DirectStream is shipping June 2nd.
I don't want to hijack this thread. So....
For those interested in reading my comparison of:
Lampy Big6
PS Audio DirectStream
Jeff Rowland Aeris
Empirical Audio OverDrive SE
Possibly an Aesthetix Pandora Signature
Please :
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ddgtl&1398132150&&&/Absolute-top-tier-DAC-for-standard-res-R
It's a fun read and a fun experience!
Regards. |
Mattnshilp, Thank you for your posting. I look forward to your comparisons of those Dacs with the Direct Stream. Is the Lampizator more expensive than the PS Direct Stream? |
Yes. I believe it retails for $8K-
Aeris retail is $9600-
Directstream is $6k-
OverDrive SE is about $8K- with options +/-
so even if I determine that its as good but just doesn't have perfect synergy with my system, its still a feather in the DS cap competing with DAC's at $2-4k more. |
Matt,
First off thanks for you fun thread. If you get a chance, email me at wis97non at yahoo.co.uk, if you dont mind.
2nd, I agree the DS is a very interesting Dac, but I also know you are RBCD focussed via PC server. The DS is really a DSD based Dac and perhaps it shines brightest on that material, even though they say that it brings new life to CDs. I personally love DSD, so I am favourably inclined. I would love to compare in via DSD to my Lampi DSD-only Dac. |
Ozzy.. another review of the DirectStream
http://bitperfectsound.blogspot.ca/2014/05/directstream-i.html |
I wish he gave a list of "all" the other DAC's he has had in his room besides the uber $31k DAC.
That statement is sorta worthless without a list.
I get that the DS is 90% of the Diamond, and that's an impressive statement. |
Matt, I agree. Even with the reference to the Diamond it does not give enough of a reference to relate to. Mind you I have heard the Diamond and I thought at the time it was the best DAC I had heard but that was several years ago and that is a VERY long time in Audio terms.
Even the first review of the DS only compared it to the PW DAC. Hell, I would hope it was better.
|
My Direct Stream has been shipped! Should get it sometime next week. |
Everything I have read thus far suggests the DS only needs about 100 hours of burn in time (that's about 4-5 days) to reach full potential. This is important to me so that I can give the unit the best chance it has to shine.
Has anyone heard it needs longer?
Otherwise, I will burn it in for 7 days before I listen. That's about 160 hours. |
PSA DirectStream break-in time.
I have a PSA PWD MkII. After two weeks of break-in I was ready to return it. Hard sounding treble, thin bass. My vendor said they took a long time to sound right and that their worst sound during break-in was after two weeks (powered on 24x7). After the two week mark, it started sounding better and after a month, the treble was clean, relaxed, extended and the bass was tight, deep, and musical. I don't know if the DirectStream settles in faster, but this is just fyi from my experience. |
Matt. I have one, 200 hours is the jump off point . A few on the PSA forum are reporting 500.. I have about 500 on mine and I'd concur. |
I am pretty sure it's a 30 day return policy.
So I will chew up the first 20 days burning in.....
I better confirm the length of that return policy. ;) |
Matt, IME you will need most of that 30 day trial period to get the final sense of the DS. In my system it took somewhere after 3-4-500 hours before the high end came into its own. Just make sure when you're not listening to it to keep running music, burn in tracks, whatever, 24/7. Others report the thing sounded fantastic right out of the box. I don't know what that means, but go figure. |
If you have a look at the PS audio forum dedicated to the DS you will note that the DS needs 500+ hours of break-in. |
