+2 congrats.
I got to hear ProAc's at Audioconnection. I have to say they are a pair of speakers I would consider if I ever strayed from Vandersteen.
Quads and Maggie's a close 2nd and 3rd.
If I remember correctly, they were paired with Aesthetix amplifier and pre.
Bob |
milpai, congrats on your decision. I love mine, just great speakers all around. |
Thanks kclone. Your feedback regarding room size and experience also played a role in my decision.
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I actually owned three pair of Proac's for well over 20 years. Sold them all off to get the Vandersteen Treo's. I went to Audio Connection to get my cones surrounds redone as they all were rotted out. I went to listen to the new D series speakers and then Johnny forced me to listen to the Treo's even though I told him no Vandies for me. I fell in love with the Vandies, but ProAc's are still one of my favorite speakers. They are the only ribbon I've heard to date that don't make my ears bleed. Really like them a lot. |
ctsooner What Proacs did you own? |
@gdnrbob,
Thank You sir.Good to know that you like ProAcs too. I found them musical at the demos I had. All I am hoping is that they would gel in my system.
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Hey, why not make this the official ProAc D48R owner's thread? Now I have them and love what they are doing. |
I had the Supertowers and also 2 pair (from family members) of the Studio 1's if I remember correctly. Sold all of them and got the Vandersteen Treo's that Bob now owns. |
I would consider pre plus power (not integrated) of Macintosh or Bryston for the D48R ,it will cost you more than 5K for new but for speakers that cost around 10k do deserve better amplification maybe you can find better options in your budget at the used market than you can consider Pass lab,Audio Research, Krell,Classe act as well . |
I use the Audio Research VSi75 integrated. with Audience SX cables with my D48Rs. Sounds quite good, very musical |
@heinrichmilw,
I was wondering how you have positioned your ProAcs? I am trying to find the BEST positions for them in my room which is 18X15X8. I have currently placed them about 5 feet from the back wall and 3 feet from the side wall. Both positions are approximate for now, since I am still trying to adjust to the new sound. I have also toed them per ProAc's recommendation - speakers are facing directly at listening position, with neither side of the speaker sides seen.
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((((I was wondering how you have positioned your ProAcs?))
With almost a square room why not try an asymmetrical approach.
This is where you sit in almost the back corner and stare straight ahead into the front corner than each speaker goes up each wall 6 feet maybe 7 or so adjust speakers so you can see just a little of the inside wall of each Proac.
Bring speakers out into the room or push back to taste.
Best JohnnyR
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Thank You for letting me know JohnnyR. Not really keen on the asymmetric approach. But will move the speakers slightly away, instead of facing directly at listening position and check the results. I believe I have tried that, but will experiment more.
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Try to move one of the speakers little bit forward than the other it seems strange but it did miracles at my room with my Proac's the right speaker is more forward to my position listening than the left one the soundstage became more focused and transparent. |
One of my takes on Johnny's post is to make sure you see an equal sliver of the inside of the speakers wood. I owned many Proacs over the years and that's how they are supposed to be positioned. Let us know what you end up with |
@itzkak1969,
Thank you for the suggestion. My listening room is "almost" symmetric. Almost - because there is a door on the first reflection point. But it has been reinforced with extra ply, so that it is on the same level as the wall. I did try out this method, as you suggested, but ended up symmetrical.
@ctsooner ,
Thank you for adding on to the previous suggestion. I did try out your suggestion last night. But the way I ended up was, pointing the speakers directly at the listening position where neither side of the speakers are seen.
For the past few days I struggled for more than 12-15 hours trying to find out the best position for the speakers in the room. What I found out was, even moving the speakers 1/8th inch, changes the imaging. While it was also the case with my older speakers, the changes with this speakers is huge. I was able to lock down this down with the songs "The Rain Falls" (
Eleanor McEvoy) and "Desperado" (Eagles). What I find now is that, not all songs have the vocals coming from dead center. Some songs have vocals that are slightly on the left, while some to the right. Even my chair is positioned exactly in the center of the room.
I have the speakers on the granite plinths with the Herbies footers and that improved the bass. They are 70" (front face of speaker) from the back wall and 41" (tweeter center) from the side wall. I am enjoying my music more than ever. |
Milpai,
I got a chuckle reading your latest post. Exactly the same issue
I've been having with my D-30R's. To be fair I had the same struggles
with my B&W's as well. Nice to know I'm not alone. One tip I would
pass along is that I have my listening chair at a slight angle to my
system. Its centered but the chair is pointed at a slight angle to the right.
Seems to help keep the image centered more consistently. I'm still not
completely happy but I'm getting closer. Glad to hear your enjoying
the D-48R's.
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@cmach,
Ha ha, I agree, it always feels good to know that you are not the only one. I feel that this is a generic problem. But folks like us are super-critical about our placement and that is why it bothers us so much. Over last night and tonight I spent an additional 1 hour and I think I have got the placement more to my liking. Thanks to the so many suggestions from JohnnyR, @ctsooner,
@itzkak1969
and others. My final position stands at 74" from back wall, 40 1/2" from side wall with 100" between the speakers. All distances from the center of the tweeter. The speaker, now, does not face the listening position "directly". Instead they are angled slightly so that I cal see a very small sliver of the inner walls, such that, if a line were to be extended from the tweeters of both speakers, to the listening position, they would cross about a feet behind the listener's ears.
Listening to Steely Dan's "Pretzel Logic" and the vocals seems dead center. One observation is that these are absolutely not analytical speakers. Since these speakers are new to me, I start listening with the intention to experience the "sound staging and imaging". But this speakers does not allow me to focus on that. It creates such a coherent sound that, you look at the music as a whole instead of trying to identify the individual instruments/vocals/effects/etc. I love the guitars and the tight bass. I think this is the bass I was looking for. It provides the strong foundation of the musical experience.
Just finished Steely Dan. Next album is Faith, George Michael. Vocals are centered and I have no issues. Would like to hear from you when you get that "lock on vocals" in your system. I will update my system in a few days. Between job, kids and activities it is becoming more challenging to do this. Do post your system pics, if you get a chance; would love to see your system.
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@cmach,
One thing I forgot to mention. I know that the vocals (or center image) in my system can be further improved, if I remove the audio cabinet in between the speakers OR lowering the height of the cabinet OR placing the components on the floor. That will be the next step, but not for the immediate future. I will do that in the coming weeks, as and when I find time.
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I believe that the speakers are properly "run in". I don't understand why people say ProAcs are musical and not for people who want "pin point imaging". These speakers certainly image awesome in my setup. They are super musical without being a bit analytical. The problem with these speakers is that they reveal shortcoming in the recordings. But on the positive side, it does not kill the musicality of the bad recordings. Only the "quantity" of the musical enjoyment is reduced. These speakers have been keeping me up, late into the night.
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yeah, most good speakers will reveal shortcomings in the recordings, just the way it is. I have had some set ups where I can't even be in the room with these recordings, they are so hard sounding, hot, bright, thin, etc..hurts the ears. I can listen to them on a boom box, or a car stereo, but not my main system. With the Proac's you can still enjoy them, just use the right electronics and cable it right and you a good to go with that stuff, relatively speaking of course. |
A couple of folks reached out to me and indicated that an active preamp will take my system performance to a much higher level, now that I have the ProAcs. In my system I have adequate bass and sound to the point that I have ordered 2 more tri-traps from GIK to cover the entire front corners, top to bottom.
My question is, what will the active preamps do that the TVCs are not doing? Is bass and loudness of a system not a good measure to judge that your system has enough gain?
I am open to suggestions. |
Proacs are known for their imaging etc.. Yes, they are highly revealing which is what a high end speaker should be. That's the biggest problem I have wiht Wilsons. Fun to listen to and I could own them, but they lack the micro and macro detail I love. Different strokes for .....
glad you have them burned in and set up. Most speakers are easy to set up, but to coax the last bit of goodness, it takes time and moving them around. I have to wait until friends come over to move them as I have MS and I can't even get up and down for album changes anymore, lol.
mil, you ask about electronics, the thing is, you need to try them in the system. What works for me, may not work for you. It's about synergy. Johnny R is going to be a GREAT resource as he's sold Proac's for years. I found him when I needed to get a new pair of speakers after 20 years. I ended up getting the Vandy Treo's instead as I liked them better, but I do love the Proac's also. It's one of the few ribbons I enjoy as they are musical and never harsh. Stuart does a great job there.
What is your price range? What are you missing? So many good choices out there. I personally ended up with an Ayre AX5/20 which is one of the best integrated amps I've ever heard in my life. The pre amp is built in the passive mode if I recall correctly. I'm not 100% there, but Johnny knows. I'm going to be selling it soon as I am sure I'll want the new Vandersteen amps with adjustable crossovers, but that's a huge step up for me, lol. |
@ctsooner , Sorry to hear about your condition. Hopefully music soothes you.
What are you missing?
That is exactly what I want to find out about using active preamp in my system. I have been recommended the JR Capri S2 and the Wyred 4 Sound STE-SE Stage 2. I wonder how they will compare with the Parasound JC-2. BTW, you have a great system. |
Thanks for the kind words. When using a passive, you will miss some slam and dynamics. Depending on how good or bad the active preamp is as well as how it matches your amp, will make or break the sound for you.
You really should ask Johnny about the Belles pre amp. To me, it's a Best Buy pre amp and I think well in your price range. Heck, their integrated amp is KILLER and sounds awesome with your speakers I've been told. I've heard it with them once and loved what I listened to. Whatever you do, stay away from using a digital pre amp that would be with a DAC, lol. |
ctsooner, are you talking about the Aria Integrated with the Proac D48s? |
If that combo sounds good, I can only wonder what the new Virtuoso will sound like with the D48R's. |
@milpai ,
The ProAc D-48r in ebony look great in your room. A huge upgrade from the Quad 21L.
You should try an active preamp to see if that makes a difference for you. I am using an Aesthetix Calypso which is great in my system.
I also replaced the factory spikes with Nordost Sort Fut. That made a very nice improvement.
Best Regards,
Jim Perry |
Kclone, the Aria is a really nice integrated. I'd want something like my Ayre AX5/20 with it though or for a pre, that Calypso is crazy good. I just sold my upgraded Rhea. |
@jperry ,
Thank You for the kind words. Yes, it is indeed a huge upgrade.
I will have to try some active preamp in my system. Not sure if any dealer or manufacturer would entertain the idea of in-home demo.
As for the factory spikes, they are fine for now. I have not experienced the Nordost footers. I have demoed the IsoAcoustics Gaia footer and was super impressed. Those are on my mind, but maybe for next year.
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My buddy Matt is doing a footer shootout. Gia are right there with some of the much more expensive ones. Its a fascinating shootout to say the least. Lot's of pretenders for sure. |
@ctsooner ,
I use the Nordost Sort Fut and recommend he try those. I will be interested to see a report on the results. |
@ctsooner ,
Would like to hear more bout the shootout when it is completed - like what other footers were used, price points, advantages, availability, etc.
I have heard the GAIA and was pretty impressed with what they did. Amazing difference with and without, in that demo.
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Please don't be mad as I don't want to offend anyone. The Nordost didn't make the first cut. I forget the reason's, but they just weren't close to the Iso Accoustic gear or any of the others. I've personally tried them and not liked them as much as maple footers I made in the shop with cut off's. For cheap, the wood footers are outstanding, but with the wrong gear will dull the top end and it can muddy the mids.
Using the 'rubber' footers is usually best for the less weighty, folded metal cabinets. Not always though. Since it's still an evolution, I can't share which ones are best per say as he has Symposium in now along with HRS Nimbus and is getting Magico pucks.
The solid metal cabinets and folded ones are just totally different beasts and may need different footers. |
@ctsooner ,
What was the outcome of the "footer" shootout? Also I hear good thinks about the ISO Pucks. Any experience with them? |
Matt is still working on it. He will be using a couple of new ones tomorrow. Looking forward to what he comes up with. I'll post when he let's me know something. I haven't used the pucks, but every time I"ve heard any iso gear, it was great for the money and honestly, just good no matter what. I know a very high end dealer in the south who sells some very expensive footers and shelves and he loves the iso a TON. Not everyone wants to or needs to spend thousands on platforms or footers, so the Iso stuff is a great value as you aren't sacrificing anything. I also have never heard the HRS stuff not sound GREAT. Their footers aren't too expensive based on the cost of others footers and he has them to play with. That is the one I'm waiting to hear about along with Symposium rollers. |
These speakers are like monitors. Listening to "Road To Escondido". I like the entire album, musically. But the Recording on this CD is pretty compressed.
Nevertheless, I have not experienced this music in "full spectrum" before. One thing is for sure - a loudspeaker makes or breaks a listening listening experience. Basically some albums that I thought were "alright" before, sound so musical. |
Mil, the footers shootout so far has the HRS Nimbus, Symposium rollerblocks and the Iso Acoustics as great ones. The Iso, for the price have been awesome. He's doing the Shun Mook and Magico right now. |
@ctsooner please provide some more specific information on the exact HRS product(s) used.
Thanks. |
Thanks for the update @ctsooner . I would love to get the IsoAcoustic GAIAs, sometime in the future. |
The footers were the HRS Nimbus. The shelf was the new Vortex. The thing is that they make different shelves depending on whether or not you have a sheet metal cabinet or one that is made of thick plate or even CNC machined. |
Anyone know the thread size of the footers on the D48R? I am thinking of getting the Isoacoustics Gaia II for my ProAcs. Have emailed soundorg.com, but have not heard back.
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Email Straight to Proac and ask them. |
I had the same question about my DT-8's. Like itzhak suggests I emailed ProAc directly and got an answer the next day from Stuart Tyler with the information I needed. He is very good about answering emails as I recently sent him another about some changed published specs and again he got back to me the very next day. I love the support for the little things it gives me confidence that they would be there if anything major should happen. Love my DT-8's they hit way above their price range! |
@mets1p,I had emailed them last year and did not hear back.But based on @itzhak1969's suggestion I have emailed them again. So lets see when they respond.Out of curiosity, what was the thread size on your DT-8? Maybe the D48R uses the same size.
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Hi milpai They are 6mm by 41mm long. They may use M6 (6mm) thread size the length may be the same or not. This is the email address I used to contact ProAC: [email protected]. |
@mets1p,Thank You very much for the information! Appreciate it sir.
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Is M6 one of the thread sizes that comes as an alternative in the Gaia box? |
@twoleftears,Yes I believe it is one of the thread size in the Gaia box.
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