Proac D48R


Proac owners, I need advice for a integrated amp for the Proac D48Rs. I listen mostly to classic rock an jazz. My budget is 5k new or used market.
heinrichmilw
If you can stretch you budget a little ARC VSi75. In my experience, ProAcs love ARC tubes. The VSi75 should be enough to drive your speaks.

On the SS side Pass INT-60.

Both amps a little outside your budget but your speakers are worth it. What are you using now?
I have had many pairs of Proacs since the early 90's.  They do love tube gear. I ran AR and Quicksilver much of the time. If you want something different, Primare is a GREAT match also.  For some reason, they have synergy.  Worth a listen if you are able to.  
I have heard the Sugden Masterclass IA-4 Integrated Amplifier with my Proac D-40r speakers (very similar to your D-48 speakers) and was very impressed with the results. It is in your price range new, with a minor discount, and is a real consideration if you are looking for an integrated amplifier. 33 wpc of pure class A listening pleasure.
that's interesting that you can get that speaker driving the way it can with only 33 watts.  I know it's only a measurement, however I ended up getting a larger Quick and AR amp as they just opened up big time with more current and higher power in general.  I have heard the D2 I believe it is, with a SET amp that was low watts and it was awesome.  The mids and highs just sang. I couldn't live with it as I need full sound, but there are some great amps out there now.
Does this mean that ProAcs and Solid State amplifier don't go well together?
Not at all milpai.....Pass as already mentioned and Plinius come to mind as does the Primare that Pete mentioned.  Some like Naim as well.  I used a Rega Elex-r with my Proac d20r with good success in a small room.  Keep us posted.  Regards.......

Thank You for the clarification carmenc.

And how would you describe the ProAc sound? In my room, with precise placement, my Quads's sound stage starts about 2-3 feet behind the speaker front face. And the sound stage is pretty wide, since I moved them 65" from the back wall and 36" from side walls, with 9 feet between the tweeters. If I change the speakers, I do not want to loose this character in the sound that Quads currently provides. I am looking for more refinement in treble and bass extension.
Perhaps the best midrange I've ever heard with the utmost refinement.  There is a review on line that refers to the 20r as the Baroque speaker.  I'll try and locate it for you.  I only sold mine because I was looking for more well defined bass and an ability to unravel complex passages as I sometimes listen to large scale classical and fusion.  As they say, you can't have it all unless you're willing to spend major bucks.  I've since gained more drive and speed with my Tannoys, but have lost out on that emotional Proac midrange.  It seems I've unfinished business with Proacs.  I most likely will get a pair of Response d2 in the future with a tube integrated.  The sweet spot seems to be the Proac d30r as it has a different driver than the 20r.  Carbon fiber as opposed to glass fiber.  More well defined bass.  There is just something about the Proacs that has me hooked.  We'll see.  Regards.........

Yes, I have read that review about ProAc 20R as the Baroque loudspeaker. But there was another audiogoner who was trying to sell his D30R because it seemed to lack the bass. Take a aook at erikminer's system. He has those speakers. The D48R seem to have 4 ohm nominal impedance Vs 8 ohms that I would prefer, my system having a passive preamp.
Yes, I saw his system.  I believe he sold them.  The Proacs are known for their natural sound and outstanding midrange.  As you have mentioned and based on my experience, bass is not their strongest quality.  Perhaps the d40r and new d48r have that bass.  I've read that older model Proacs had good bass, albeit lower sensitivity.  Regards........

I have always liked them.  Got to meet Stewart Tyler many years ago and had a great talk.  His speakers to me always were known for captivating  midrange and just disappearing.  I always felt the bass wasn't big no mater what size speaker they had.  

There are plenty of great solid state amps these days.  The thing is that the cost of Proacs aren't in the ridiculous range, so why use a 15k amp with them?  I heard them with a pair of Jadis many years ago that I was looking into getting and it was awesome.  I used my Studio Towers with an Ayre AX7e for nearly a year.  I almost didn't even bother changing speakers.  That was a  really nice sound to say the least.  
Check into the Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP.  It is an absolutely killer amp..... (bested my VAC Sigma 160i) and within your price range.

Just curious as to room size limitations for the D48r? It doesn’t look like a huge speaker, but I wonder if they will work well in a medium size room. Any insight would be appreciated.

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Sense63, take a look at my room. I have the D-40r speakers in a 11x17 room with 10 ft ceilings. They work fine in that size of room.
Thanks jperry....what a nice system!  If someone were thinking of getting a pair of Proacs, what would be the best way to go....D30R or D48R?  I wonder what the sonic differences would be?  Also, the D48R is the newer version of the D40R correct?
Thanks sense 63. I appreciate the comment on my system.

If your room and budget work with the size and cost of the D-48r that would be my choice. The D-48r will have more bass extension and play louder than the D-30r due to the additional woofer and larger cabinet.
 
The D-48r is an update of the D-40r. The D-40r is is the same size as the D-48r, but does not show as a current speaker on their web site. The sound will be very similar.
I love my ProAc studio 148s with my audio refinement / YBA separates. They sound more tube like than the rogue cronus magnum or vista audio i34 integrates. Maybe one of yba's integegrateds?

Wow, autocorrect really worked against me on that last post. Glad my system is full tilt away from that working well and sounding great. 
brown, that's pretty funny.  Thanks I needed a laugh
Thank You for all the advice and suggestions, very much appreciated. I went with the Audio Research VSi75. Should arrive next week. 
That's a really fun integrated.  You can even tube roll if you want, but honestly, AR does a pretty good job with their tubes.  I've never changed their tubes when i have owned their gear.  I used AR in years past with my Proac speakers and it really meshed well.  
Please let us know your feedback once you have VSi75. I currently have the AR LS26 and VS60 combo but interested in going towards the integrated route as I am very limited on space and only use one input on the LS26 preamp (from the Rega-R dac). My local audio store tells me that Line Magnetic integrated are also very good too but I have not tried that in my home yet.

I used to have the Proac D38 but sold it due to moving to a much smaller place. I am currently using Proac response 2.5 that I bought it locally but interested in upgrading to the D30R at some point. Though I am not sure if I should call it upgrade as I just love the 2.5! There is some magic about it that draws me into the music. Obviously the D38s were more dynamic and had a bigger sound stage and could extract more detail.

So very interested in this discussion. You can obviously tell I am a Proac fan!
zeeshanb, Over the years what cd players have you tried and liked best with your Proacs? Also speaker cables, ICs & PCs
Not much doesn't sound great on Proac's, especially with ARC driving them. If you're looking for CDP what's your budget? If you're ok buying used, an ARC CD3 is a nice player. I once owned a CD2 and it sounded nice on Proacs. I've dragged my Cambridge 851C over to my fathers system; ARC with Proacs and sounds great to me. Guessing you don't have your ARC yet. Think you'll be very happy with the combo. Congrats!

heinrichmilw, I have been mainly using the mac mini->Dac route in the last 8 or so years. The last CD player I remember was the  Cambridge 840c but that is because it had a digital input. So even that I was using it as a Dac mostly. Its just too conveniant to have all your music on the server and then have app on your smart device to use it as a remote!

After that I have tried many dacs including Benchmark DAC, Arcam, Mhdt Havana, and then Rega. I settled on the Rega DAC, and now the DAC-R, as it has the most analogue like sound. It works very well with the D series Proac. If you are looking for CD players I would suggest auditioning the Rega Apollo-R and the Saturn-R. The latter one also has the digital input that supports 24/192.

For speaker cables I use Proac cable and Ridge Street Audio Poiema!!! IC. I would not spend too much money on these ultra expensive cables. Buy the best reasonable priced cables that you can afford and enjoy the music!
I've owned nearly all the Proacs from the 90's until 2002 or so. I still have my Krell Stealth Dac that I'm going to sell. We all felt it sounded better for some reason than the DAC 32 that cost a lot more. I have the Cal Audio Labs drive for it that needs a new home too lol. I also have the CAL Terret CD player that I'm going to sell. That was a great pairing I. The day. Now digital is a different breed. Budget is most important. I own an Empirical Audio OSDE/SE DAC and run a Marantz blue ray and a totally rebuilt MAC Mini with a Haynes linear power supply and 500gb Samsung Soild state drives. Cable is an empirical solid silver hand made USB. I run fully balanced with an Ayre AX-5 Twenty integrated. I ran my ProAc Super Towers that were upgraded through ProAc and my former dealer. From MIT internal wiring to the response drivers and rebuilt crossovers with mundorf's etc. It was such an awesome system, but I upgraded to VANDERSTEEN Treo's. ProAc and VANDERSTEEN seem to have changed their corporate sound over the years but I heard the 7k proacs I believe they were and they were one of the only ribbon tweeters that I have liked. 

Personally i I feel that AR digital is their weak point. They have newer gear that sounds better but Aesthetix is making some great digital but it costs a lot. Personally I'd just spend 1500 and buy the Ayre Codex. Alex and the guys know what they are doing. It's a great DAC and can be used as the pre in a simple system with a good quicksilver or AR amp if you want to go that route or paired with that AR integrated. I do love that Ayre DAC for the price. It seems to be liked by most regardless of what they like to listen to as they get rid of the digital ringing. They understand digital filtering as well as analogue. Just some personal thoughts. 
Over the last 15 years I have owned Proac's. I had the response 5's powered by BAT tubed mono's then the BAT 250wpc SS amp. Loved those combo's but felt the 5's were a little too big so I sold everything and got the 1sc's and a Cary 300sei which was midrange magic. I lived with that combo for about 5 years and sold the Cary and replaced it with a Classe 100wpc SS amp. That combo was nice but as my music preference changed I felt the need for a deeper bottom end. One of my closest friends is a Proac dealer so I (for the last couple of months) started researching the new Proac line. I was torn between the D48r and the D30r. My room is aprox. 28'L x 17'W x 8'H. I was looking for that Proac midrange with a deep controlled bass. I finally decided on the D30r's (I was so worried they wouldn't have the bass I was seeking). I have had the D30r's now for 2 weeks and am totally blown away with them. They have the lush midrange and great soundstage of the 1sc's with the best, deepest and most controlled bass I have ever had. I have a Classe front end, Marantz preamp, Classe 100wpc SS amp with Nordost PC's, IC's and SC's. I couldn't be more happy. I think the D48r's would have been too big for me and my room. My musical tastes are R&B, jazz and some rock/blues....Ron
Ron,
Congratulations on the new ProAcs. I would love top see the D30R loudspeakers in your system. Care to post some pictures so that I can drool over?
Thanks!
:-)
Ron,

Glad to hear you are happy with your Proac D-30 r speakers. A really great sounding speaker, and system as well, I am sure.
milpai and jperry, You both have amazing looking systems. I still have a long way to go with the new Proac's. I am just reaching the 100 hr mark and have yet to find the right placement and spike them. Milpai I see you use Herbie's audio lab dbNeutralizer base pads. I used the big fat dots between my 1sc's and my speaker stands and liked them, do you recommend the dbNeatralizers? I have hardwood floors and have always used spikes and cups but recently talked to another Agoner who recommended Soundcare superspikes which are spikes with a  polycarbonate material used instead of a cup.... jperry, I think the Proac/Nordost combo sounds so right. I remember my 1st CES and seeing and hearing Lars demo the Nordost line. I was so taken with their open, fast, clean and natural sound I have been using Nordost ever since. I use sort kones, Valhalla (V1) PC's, Valhalla IC's and a Qbase 4. My speaker cables are are old white lightning cables from my home theater set up. I thought I would let the system break in and then fine tune it with a speaker cable upgrade at that time. I see you live in Arizona. My son is a junior at ASU in Tempe.... I have a lot of work to do on my system and  when I get a little further along I will take some photo's and post them. Thanks for your input. Ron
Ron,

Send me a private e-mail if you are in Phoenix. Great to hear your son is at ASU. I am an ASU alumni. I use Nordost sort fut under my D-40r and found them be a significant improvement over the stock spikes. Expensive, but worth it in my opinion.

Best Regards,

Jim Perry
I've also found that both MIT and Transparent are great with the new Proac's. I have never heard the new Audioquest cables not sound great too (the DBS ones).
Jim,

I am curious how you ended up with the Sort Fut. There doesn't seem to be much written about them. Were you able to demo them before buying? I have Sort Kones and use them under my amp and CD player and like them, have you tried them? Also did you try any of the other Nordost IC's and speaker cable ie. Frey 2 or Valhalla before deciding on the Tyr 2's? And do you bi-wire your speakers or jump them. It seems Nordost prefers to jump and Proac likes bi-wiring. Did you experiment with that? Also I love your wall of albums. I think I lost my virginity to that Herb Albert "Whip cream and other delights" album cover. lol ... Thanks, Ron
Ron,

I was able to demo the sort fut, and as I said it did make a significant positive difference. The downside is the price. I have sort kone TC under my amp and preamp.

I did not try the other Nordost speaker cables before purchasing the Tyr 2.  I bought a trade-in pair, which I did take home and try, then kept them. The pricing on the trade-in pair was too good for me to consider another Nordost speaker cable choice.  I jumper the speaker cables per my dealer's recommendation with the Nordost Reference bi-wire jumpers.

I have 2 pieces of Valhalla 2 in my system, a tonearm cable on my primary turntable and the AC cable from the wall to my QB-8. The interconnects are Tyr 2 and the other AC cables are Frey 2.

Thanks for the comment on the album wall. My wife helped me with that and we both like to look at it. The lady on the cover of Whipped Cream is still around and lives in Seattle area according to an article I saw a while ago.

I hope you enjoy you Proac speakers as much as I enjoy mine.

Best Regards,

Jim Perry
Jim,

As soon as I find the right position for my speakers and fully break them in I will try the Sort Fut. 

I really like your upgrade path... Analogue, tubes, Nordost and Proac, I know what your system sounds like. I'm really into Joni Mitchell, Meshell Ndegeocello, Erykah Badu, Jill Scott, Seal, Shawn Colvin, Billie Holiday  and Pat Metheny just to name a few. These artists would sound so good on your system. To me there's nothing like a female vocalist floating between the speakers...Goosebumps!

Thanks so much for your input and I will keep in touch.

Ron