2. amps-preamps
  3. 133890-78011

PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium

Hi,

First and foremost let me say I’m not trying to start any war of words, bash any manufacturers products or any HiFi dealers. I’m just stating my humble opinion. In the words of Denzel Washington in the movie Malcom X we’ve been hoodwinked and led astray when it comes to the whole audiophile phenomenom. I recently owned a ARC REF 5SE, REF 110 and ARC solid state DS450M mono-block amps. They were driving my Magnepan 20.7’s and my Meridian music streamer. I just switched all of it out for a PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium HP amplifier with KT150 tubes and a PL Dialogue Premium preamplifier and two these ears my Maggie’s have never sounded so good. I’m going to add another PL Dialogue Premium HP next week and then I can honestly say I am done with my search for high fidelity sound. People please don’t let other dealers and manufacturers tell you, you need to spend $$$$ to achieve musical nirvana it’s all hype. I fell for that crap and I’m really embarrassed to say it. PrimaLuna is a superior musical instrument that honestly should cost 4 to 5 times more for their Dialogue Premium line. The build and features are second to none. Please please don’t let these dealers tell you other wise. It’s all about the benjamins and they want you to invest your hard earned money in there over priced crap. I invite anyone to listen to my system and tell me this isn’t as good as it gets and that this is not how music should sound. I live in Seattle and I  reached out to Upscale Audio’s Kevin Deal after 1 1/2 weeks of watching his videos and banging my head against the wall over my inferior lifeless musical experience. I took a leap of faith after reading several reviews and seriously doing some home work and made decision. Wow PL and KD thank you for not making me look like and absolute fool. I honestly feel like I stole from PL and Upscale Audio. Can’t stop tapping my feet and shaking my head. Bye for now and if one person listens to PRimaLuna after reading this thread my mission is complete. Peace,  Miles and Dizzy are on stage with Stevie Ray riding shotgun!
bluesy41

Showing 4 responses by 1graber2

1graber2's avatar
1graber2
303 posts
 
I second a few thoughts above, 

. Soundman is correct about the low cost of parts compared to retail prices, for PL or any other manufacturers. Since PL has less advertising costs, they can focus more in R and D, and sell at a lower cost, so we consumers get more bang for buck

. I have the HP Integrated, and IMO, the 6 stock PL preAmp are crap, and I did not realize this until I swapped them out.
. Also, I tried the stock PL EL34s, and it’s not that they were bad, but not my cup of tea. I replaced them with 8 mid-level KT88s (Gold Lion). And with some 12AU7 Brimars, IT IS A DIFFERENT AMP.

IMO, the true value of the PL Integrated is that it provides a quality blueprint for which to add on to and customize for your own speakers with tubes, while all the while having those fat, heavy transistors that can drive down to 2 ohms (eg, hello Maggie’s, hello Dynaudio, etc). 

So so in the end, I spent about $4k for the HP Integrated, and another $800 on KT88s and and 2 NOS 12au7s. I would bump up my game to 8 KT120s for increased dynamics, but I will be using a sub for the low end, and this allows me to retain mid range glory of the 88s.

1graber2's avatar
1graber2
303 posts
 
Bluesy, 
hope you read my post above. Tubes matter.

i know there tends to be hyperbole on forums, but I’m telling you, replacing the stock PL tubes, whether for preAmp or Amp, creates a much better sound in terms of timbres/tones, soundstage, ambiance, and just sounding more fleshed out, real, and natural. 

So yes, try the Brimars or any of the similarly priced 12AU7s from Upscale will up your game significantly.

Or maybe look at it this way: How many thousands of dollars have you already spent on your Audio electronics and KT150s? So trying out a couple Brimars for $160 is a low risk compared the audio benefit that you will receive. 

As as you probably know, call Jarrod at Upscale, and he can recommend types of 12AU7s, and the number of 12au7s that you will need. E.g.  for me, I have the integrated HP with 6 12AU7s, but only the middle two 12au7s (input tubes) need to be replaced to impact the sound. The other 4 are driver tubes, and replacing them would be higher cost at diminished returns.  I can replace all six tubes if I want, but that is expensive and unnecessary per Jared. And in my experience that is true. 

Your dedicated PL preAmp may have more than 2 input tubes to replace, I’m not sure. But I can also say that I greatly prefer tube rectification, and that is one reason I would exchange my PL Integrated for separates. So again, “tubes matter” lol. Buy a quality rectifier tube. 

Last, and sorry for the essay, but I love this stuff: you have the Maggie’s driven by KT150s. The Brimars would be good for your mix of gear,  but consider the NOS MULLARDS. The KT150s give you the top to bottom dynamics, as it spreads more energy to driving the high and low end frequencies, but at the cost of less energy for mid frequencies. The NOS MULLARDS will help fill that gap in the mids, at a small cost to the hi/low dynamics you have. 

But out whatever you decide, know that adding the Brimars or MULLARDS will be a game-changer. Especially in the soundstage, compared to the stock PL tubes..
good luck, let us know what you decide ....

1graber2's avatar
1graber2
303 posts
 
Great ,  it only gets better from here. 
And waiting for those new tubes to arrive in the mail, I know the anticipation, it’s the hardest wait…
1graber2's avatar
1graber2
303 posts
 
Thx JB re: the tubes,
im maxed out on tubes now, but will keep for reference.

And I agree, would be good maybe to have a sticky of summary of PL upgrade options and reliable shops that will modify, or DIY even better.
More to discover