PRIMA LUNA AMPLIFIERS


Hi 

I,m thinking of buying a Prima Luna amplifier but worried re reliability, and what you do in the UK if you have problems.

Would like to hear what owners think about reliability, tube changes , tube upgrades, potential problems,
And what happened if you had problems re after sales repair and support.



i,m going to use them with Proac D20 r floorstanders .

 Thanks in advance for your help 
goldfish2a
I do not have Primaluna but I do have a Cayin,made in the same factory by the exact same technicians that build the P.L. stuff.Build quality if off the charts,automotive grade lacquer finish,Japanese Steel for transformers and only the best electronic components just as in the P.L.I have no doubt with regular tube changes it will last a lifetime...P.L has a solid reputation,email them about UK support.Make sure your dealer runs the amp in a day or two  as most likely any problems will occur out of box..Ease of use is a P.L. strongpoint and I’m sure some KT120’s or 150’s will make those speakers sing.Oh and one more thing.If your new to tubes be prepared to have everything you thought you knew turned upside down.
Thanks that’s a great detailed reply, I,m going to contact uk dealers and ask about support. 
I just imagined a nightmare scenario of a 65 pound amp being sent to the Netherlands!
At owners cost !
Blown away I know what you mean I have been listening to a Rogue chronos magnum, and the Proac D20rs moon cd and Van den hul interconnects!
This sounds better than anything so far , better than ordinary systems cost £ 0000,s , better than solid State amplifiers,
musical notes delivered by a fairy onto a velvet duvet !
all the best Trev 
FWIW I have owned both the PL integrateds and the Cayin integrateds. I found that the PL's (with the tubes I used at least) were warmer than the Cayins which was a good thing. I also found the PL's far more reliable than the Cayins. I still have versions of each in the house and I use the PL's. I've had them for about 5 years with no issues at all. Heavy use.

Service for them in GB is unknown to me. I'm amazed that it cost so much to just send over the channel. :-(
I own a Dialogue integrated. You almost never see this stuff for re-sale. What does that tell you?? (not being sarcastic)
I have owned a Primaluna Dialogue HP loaded with KT150s integrated for over a year now and can’t say enough good things about this amp. I had my neighbor help me paint my house and what did I pay him with? Yes a Primaluna Dialogue HP! We both love this amp. I run a speaker company and do listening parties all the time and lug my Primaluna with me to drive any of my speaker line. These things  are amazing. High quality components with point to point wiring and never had an issue. Awesome amp! 
Love my Prologue 5. Beautifully built. Zero problems.

Any competent tube amp tech could fix one in the unlikely event that something went wrong.

They have a 'gorgeous, romantic' sound.
I had Dialogue integrated and traded it for a Dialogue HP integrated. (Had a tube Mac prior then a Hegel). I rolled the supplied el34’s to KT 120’s to power sonus faber’s that needed more to drive them. It’s around four years old now. No problems. The integrated comes with a proper thick gauge power cord. (I did upgrade that as I have a bit of the bug). I moved that to a sub.

My hifi friends also dig it and a fancy mono block friend was “stunned”.

I put anther HP in my office and kept the 34’s as the speakers on that set up don’t need more power.

On the KT120 rig I also put in a fancy fuse. Ok on that I think it mattered but I’m not sure.

On both I run 10G Off the spool OFC wire. The 4ohm taps made a large difference. It also has 8's.

I like the look of 34’s because they glow more than 120’s. I’m a visual artist.

I run a sub on both.

The remote control is made of metal and is solid/heavy as are the very well built PL’s.

If you want that warm tube sound you’ll get it. Mostly my listening is Jazz but Rock/Coffeehouse/Classical and Reggie all sound great.

Do believe the hype. Or believe my wife who as I was typing this said to turn it up (Kurt Elling then onto Ben Peterson).







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I also have a PL tube CD player. I can’t say if it’s better/worse than others. I like it but didn’t try anything else.
Okay Prima is primo but is Line Magnetic Supremo?
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I have a pair of Prologue Mono's, powered by a Dialogue Preamp.
Build quality is amazing, sound quality is great, and the auto-balancing feature should keep your tubes healthy for a long time.
Also powering a pair of Sonus Faber's, quite happy with the setup!
I've had my 2 PrimaLuna Evo 400 poweramps and Evo 400 Preamp running for about 10 days, and they are everything I could ever want in an amp. Driving Martin Logan CLX with Gotham sub to room shaking levels, or listening late at night at low levels. Either way, its pure bliss. 

I would not worry too much about these things needing repair too often, if ever. Here's a photo I took showing the build quality of my preamp with the bottom cover taken off. It's really beautifully made, and the power amps are just the same.

http://www.g45central.com/posts/PLx.jpg
I’ve only just joined Audiogon so hopefully my reply reaches you all

Thanks for all contributions photos very detailed and this is inspiring for Prima Luna ownership and musical abilities.

Because they are expensive ( and heavy ) I want an amplifier for life hopefully, I must say tube amplifiers are essential to my ears compared with anything, and I can’t believe how bad ( to my ears) 
modern hi fi sounds regardless of cost.
Hi 

new to audiogon so so hope I,m posting ok and everyone can read this thanks for the detailed replies and photos, I feel most assured by your responses and faith in Prima Luna .

The valve tube sound is perfect to my ears , it’s a big investment but only hi fi fans understand, I,m noting your advice and experiences and look forward to auditioning a Prima Luna with Proac D20r speakers soon and will report back to you all

Thanks Trev 
I've had my Prologue Classic only a couple months, so I can't speak on their reliability. I will say, I'm very happy with mine. The build quality is very good. Much has already been covered by other responses. I'm running the OEM EL34s and driving a pair of Monitor Audio Silver 10s. The sound is wonderful, next up will be Gold Lion KT88s. I thought long and hard and asked on other boards about tube amps. I was about to get a Yaquin amp, glad I got the PL. After lots of online research if I were going to get a chinese made tube amp it would be PrimaLuna. 
I rolled the supplied el34’s to KT 120’s to power sonus faber’s that needed more to drive them.
Installing KT-120s would not change the power appreciably as B+ does not change. Sound and life could change.
I can’t believe how bad ( to my ears)
modern hi fi sounds regardless of cost.


So sad, so true. I was in Definitive Audio recently. Listened to Brubeck's Time Out on their premier system. Very dynamic, tons of detail, nothing the least bit organic about it. I remember thinking on the way out, and that was probably a million dollar system.

Wrong. As if. A few quick internet searches turned up the sad truth: $1.3M.

At this rate, not much longer, hi fi gonna be a four-letter word.
Thanks 

so so true I really didn’t want a tube amplifier, due to it being 
out of my comfort zone, but now I,ve heard one there’s no comparison, thanks for your Prima Luna recommendation.

But what’s wrong with people,s ears do they really like a sound that’s totally different to ,say a classical orchestra, or acoustic guitar?

Why the flat harsh dry sound, I feel like I,m on a parallel universe 
Listening to some of the modern hi fi 

just got to save up now , and try not to annoy wife with costs !

I have a Primaluna Integrated for over 16 months and have not had any problem.  It is idiot proof with auto bias and bad tube indicator. I am trading it in this week for a Primaluna Preamp and Amp.
Thanks that’s a vote of confidence for Prima Luna!
goldfish2a
But what’s wrong with people,s ears do they really like a sound that’s totally different to ,say a classical orchestra, or acoustic guitar?

Why the flat harsh dry sound, I feel like I,m on a parallel universe
Listening to some of the modern hi fi


Part of it has to be hardly anyone has ever sat and listened to an actual orchestra performing in a concert hall. I was so fortunate, third grade teacher had a Seattle Symphony violinist play in our classroom. Smart guy, too. Had us close our eyes, listen, how many violins are there? And he would play pure notes that sounded like one, then chords, and the dude could make it sound like any number of violins he wanted! 

Later we went on a field trip to the Symphony. All through jr high and high school I was in band. Lotta time around real acoustic instruments. Much later still, several years ago, we went to several concerts at Benaroya in Seattle. Locations varied from a near ideal center floor maybe 20 rows back to cheap seats way up in the balcony. The balcony seats sounded so nearly identical to my speakers at the time it was spooky. Closer up you hear a lot more detail. Nowhere including with your ear right up to the strings would you hear the hyper-crackle etch the highest of high end systems seem to do so much.

Its so bad that never mind listening, its actually getting painful even coming here to read. Because the crap people recommend and buy, I know what it sounds like, and even just imagining is enough to make my ears hurt. But its like one guy vs the WWZ zombie horde. Time you tell one, a thousand more infected.

Oh, sorry, you were going with the parallel universe metaphor. Well its not like I didn't try. Its just the zombie-like mindlessness seems a better fit.


Thanks 
yeah zombie minds I listened to hi fi magazine 5 star hi fi combinations, absolutely terrible!
The salesmen accused me of wanting a woolly sound !
no! Just a life like sounding system.
its mass hysteria,your told it’s great so you believe it,sorry to admit it happened to with monitor audio silver 6 and roksan K3 amp 
brittle bright sound.

real music as you say sounds full Rich resonating wood strings 
and where are tone controls?
i didn’t want to spend so much, but there is no option If you  want to enjoy smooth sounds!
 Thanks again 

Yup, all of us poor mortals are living in zombie land and have never heard what live music actually sounds like. A very sad situation. Glad to have people like you two around to guide us in the right direction. 
Kalali ;
   The OP is new here...he doesn't need that !
don't forget if you want to get more of an organic sound from the PL amps or any amp for that matter, need to replace the coupling caps with Jensen or Jupiter copper foil caps.

Not sure about the latest EVO amps but the dialogue and prologue used SCR and clone  SCR type caps. Very reliable, but not very musical sounding.

There has also been quite a swing in Chinese tube quality over the last 8-10 years. Today's tubes are quite good, and do not have that thin, bright brittle sound the earlier chinese tubes were known for.

happy listening.
Thanks 
i,l l write that down, and talk to dealers, I’ve had such a great positive response from Prima Luna owners that I feel confident.
just got to audition one with different speakers.
we have a valve dealer here called Watford Valves who have USA military grade valves for hi fi so will talk to them 
anything but a bright brittle sound confusingly loved by modern hi fi manufacturing !
Went back to EL34's yesterday in Trilinear mode. Slightly better sounding symbols. Overall it sound less punchy than Utralinear. Or is it the other way round? The Utralinear is louder so naturally one hears more until volume is reduced. It's a pleasant conundrum.
Hi, I have a Prima Luna Dialogue Premium...not the HP. It has been bullet proof. Drives my Maggie 1.7s no problem. Sounds fantastic and is easy on tubes. I like using winged C 6550 and el34b in it.
good luck!
cheers
k
Thanks 
very encouring news indeed what’s a Maggie and what’s a winged c6550?

allow for a late reply thanks 
I got a pair of Prologue 6 mono-blocks plus a Dialogue Premium Preamp, driving my Focal Sopra 2 with magical sounds. Had lighting strike last year and my AV receiver was toasted, and these suckers still standing with no issues. So my money ended up going for a new receiver, instead of the initial plan of upgrading the Prologue 6 to Dialogue Premium HP mono-blocks. Will do so once I saved up some cash!

So I think you’d be more likely to change tubes more frequently due to tastes (typically tubes last more than 2 years), instead of changing these amps due to their solid reliability.
I own the Dialogue Premium Integrated HP version and the music it creates is just perfect. Prior to the HP I had the Dialogue Premium Integrated (4 power tubes as opposed to 8)  for 3 yers with absoultely zero issues and when I sold it recouped 80% of my new purchase price and it is still humming along just fine!
Buy the PL.....
I’ve had a PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium pre-amp and HP for a year of heavy listening (8-12 hours per day) everyday. About two months ago I added a second HP to mono-block into ATC SCM-19V2s. I rolled the EL34s to KT150s even though the EL34s sounded great the KT150s sound phenomenal at whatever volume level I am listening. I have had zero service issues. They drive the tubes so gently, Kevin Deal said that the KT150s should last more than two years, the smaller tubes 4-5 years.

You also have so many power tube options. They all provide a different coloration and power. The switch on the side of the amp gives you that flexibility. But with the KT150s I feel like I have reached Nirvana.

Check the forums. You’ll never see anyone complaining about them. And nobody is reselling them. Don’t settle for Chinese counterfeits, they really are not as good but much, much cheaper.

If I change my listening room and speakers I feel confident that the PLs will do fine.
Bottom Line. They sound great. They won’t break. I don’t plan on having to repair or replace these.

Rollin
My Cayin was manufactured in 06' and performs as well as the day it was new. Hasn't needed servicing of any sort despite a couple tube failures. It's been more reliable than my American-made gear. Anyhow, both brands (PL, Cayin) are built like tanks, especially the Cayins.
FYI, I replaced my 25 year old Conrad-Johnson CV-50 integrated with a PL Prologue Premium about a year ago. It's driving a pair of Proac Response D-Two's. Sound is sublime, and certainly no reliability issues thus far. I think you'll be pleased.
I have to throw another vote for the PrimaLuna DiaLogue Premier HP.  I have been hankering to see how a tube amp sounded in my system with Focal Utopia Diablo III's over my SS Class A amp.  The local dealer brought one over and hooked it up.  I am always skeptical of "this X blew me away" but in reality, the PrimaLuna had a better soundstage, more realistic sound and improved imaging.  I was truly surprised at the difference and bought one.  They are built like tanks, with point to point wiring, and various bells and whistles designed to make tube ownership easy.  I had a tube start to fail in the first week, and the "bad tube indicator" immediately showed me which one was failing.  I had a new replacement from Upscale in two days.  It is a truly great amp that punches way above its price.  It drives my Focal's with no problem as well as the Joseph Audio Pulsars that I am checking out in my system.  Having been an SS guy for my whole life, I now love my PrimaLuna.  Think that you need more than 75 watts?  Buy 2 and use them as mono blocks with 145 watts per amp by throwing a switch.

I can't speak to the Cayin, which I have heard is made at the same plant, but the unconfirmed rumors are that Cayin uses differently sourced parts  and is not just a PrimaLuna with a different name slapped on it.
I just picked up a PrimaLuna HP amplifier off a fellow Audiogon member that has been sitting in my car for the last week while I’ve been traveling for work. Although, I have yet to listen to it in my own system, all the reading I have done on the Forums have been glowing which was what drew me into purchase. I’ll be rolling some KT-150s, KT-120s and EL34 winged C SED tubes, paired with a restored McIntosh C20 pre. Interested to hear how it preforms with a more modern amplifier. No reason to believe 
+1 here.  I had a Dialogue One for 4 years, and traded up to the Dialogue Premium HP.  I've had that for 2 years, and it's staying.  I've never had a failure of any kind, and the sound is amazing.  If I were to sell it, I'd be buying up the Primaluna line.  But, I doubt that will happen... it's great as is.
Hi Goldfish,
You may want to look on the market section of Audiogon and find a used unit in the eastern part of the US that would ship cheaper and below new cost. Given their reliability, it is a relatively safe bet. If the unit is still under warranty and it can transfer to a new owner, even better, but I don’t know company policy in that regard. Check Audiogon and US Audiomart. There is one in New York and one in Pennsylvania.
PRIMA LUNA AMPLIFIERS  Build like tanks, the sure will outlive you even if you will live forever . I own the prolouge primum and no hickups at all.

Don't know about UK service, even though I am a dual national.  Have PL pre & power amp.  After 3 years one rectifier tube in the pre lost it, I replaced both with Mullards.  3 years of enjoyable listening- rating 9/10
I’ve owned my PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium for almost three and a half years with zero issues.   Tube rolling easy as pie.  
They just came out with a new line.

The new line has XLR too
EVO Balanced I/O are transformer balanced. This is neither good nor bad, but raises costs and may change sonics with some gear.

IMO, PrimaLuna is losing the plot and just making amps more gimmicky.

XLR is good as far as I'm concerned. It means I can use my XLR Odin interconnects, instead of leaving them in a drawer.
I bought a new PrimaLuna Prologue Four from the 'deals' section on Upscale Audio, just a couple weeks ago. I bought to match with my new Zu Omen Def. Mine was open box, paid $1,200. Screaming deal. 

Anyhoots, since then, I've inserted KT120, for curiosity. I emailed PL who told me to adjust the autobias screw on the circuit board. No need to do that unless 120s are inserted. Fortunately I own a digital multimeter, the explanations are within the 'tube rolling' section on the PL website. I'm also rolling the little tubes, again out of curiosity. Everything is breaking in, including new Zu cables, so I'm just enjoying the sound in the meanwhile. May post update in a month or two. Actually of course now I'm thinking of PL monoblocks, like lots of us PL owners. 

8 years ago I owned a PL integrated, wish I had kept it. I bet it's still going strong for someone. 

Long story short: PLs are amazing products! You cannot go wrong! 
Hi,
enjoying my PL Dialogue Preamp for a couple of months. Sound is great, looking forward to tube rolling in a year or two. Imaging, tonality and dynamics are all great. I’m a 25 year Audiophile vet and love the PL product. Headed to Axpona tomorrow to check out the new PL products! 
Hi .. Maggie’s = Magnepan Speakers. They’re a panel speaker with a reputation for needing lots of power. But my Prima Luna drives them no problem. 6550 winged C are a power tube. Similar to Kt88 power tubes. Best of luck in your search. 
Cheers
k
Hello
 I have a pair of Martin Logan Theos, using older Siemans el34, dialouge HP Amp, Dialogue Preamp
 driven with no problem sound is great
I wonder if anybody has ever been unhappy with their PL gear.