Price increase


 Has anyone else noticed the price increase on used  B&W NauliLus speakers since the new B&W D3 speakers have come out?   They are asking more today  for the old NauliLus models that were made in the years 2001 to 2004 which is 14 to 16 years ago. The NauliLus 802 line was selling used four years ago for 3200.00 to 3800.00.  I think most sellers are trying to  up grade to the B&W D3 and this is why they have up the price on B&W  old models. But we have to think would I buy a 16 year old car and pay half the price for what it cost new ? I think not so why would we pay  such high prices for used audio gear this makes no sense at all unless we stop paying these  high prices it's just going to continue . After all ,All this audio gear is going to end up in the junk yard in the end just like  everything else .
garryh16
I noticed price increase on every possible high end component.
Totem speakers went up almost twice and so is Sonus Faber.
B&W increase is minimal relatively.

OP,

Please study the fundamentals of supply and demand and its effect on market value. It does not matter what the seller or an individual buyer feels the fair value to be, only what the marketplace will support.

Dave
The market has more high end gear now than  ever before .

I'm glad BW holds value, if my cost of owning my BW 802d3 is 8,000$ over 16 years, I'm a very happy person.
A pair of 802n sold two weeks ago in Wisconisn for $3500 . I missed the sale by one day . Now In MInnesota there is also a pair of 802 n on Craigs for $5500 (good luck if you are reading this). The pair in Wisconsin was on Craigs for two months .
This is a game many of these "high end" ----  makers play, fill in the blanks. They drastically increase the prices on their new models in order to give the (potential) buyers a sense of "investment" value for their products. In the meantime, the used prices will either stay stable or even go up. Rolex watch company and a few others have done this for years and others are trying to follow a similar business model. Time will tell who will be able to pull this off.
2800.00 to 3500.00 is the fair  value of The B&W 802n. Speakers. They make audio gear  every day of the year, year in and year out and the market is saturated with the audio gear so pricing  Needs to be more realistic or there are going to be a lot more stores selling hi fi gear out of business . It is  happening nationwide because of overpricing products .  So manufactures need to get in line and figure out what they're going to do about cost of their gear or go the way of the dinosaurs .

OP,

Please study the fundamentals of supply and demand and its effect on market value. It does not matter what the seller or an individual buyer feels the fair value to be, only what the marketplace will support.

Dave


+1 Dave. If the speakers were not selling, the prices would be dropping. That is how the market works.
Another factor is the devaluation of the USD. 1 USD today is not equal to 1 USD of 16 years ago.


The market has more high end gear now than ever before .

This is just not true. Nowadays, Audiogon has about 150-200 listings a day in their New Today category (185 right now). 10 years ago that number was 250-400 listings under New Today. As the price of the ads has gone up, the number of ads has gone down. Again, fundamental economics.
Prices and taxes go up everything else including quality goes down. Inevitable. Same with Audiogon. Not only price increase is factor of lowered listings quantity, but desire to list here as well.


The thing is there are only so many ways you can make a speaker. Looks is one ,but cross overs and the speakers you can use in the cabinets are basically the same but for the hype. When it comes to the electronic gear they all use the same basic designs . The Dac or chips may be different but they all share the same Dac and chips with each other All parts are made by companies that sell them to the makers of gear. I work on the gear. McIntosh has oppo parts in them , just take the top off of your gear and you will see many parts stamped with other company's parts names on them.Their is no big   Magic going on , all you're doing is sending a signal in one end and it gets sent out the other end to the speakers in  analog . No one company makes all of their own parts they buy Dac's from Dac companies, they buy chips from chip companies  for pennies on the dollar because they buy in  bulk . I have been fixing gear  since 1970 . And the basic  engineering in audio gear is the same . Now we use  integrated  circuits and  Dac's and chips that do most of the work to send a  analog  Signal to your speakers so you can  understand the words and Music because we ear in analog and speak in Analog and not digital.  I used to build speakers years ago and there is no great  Secret  how to  build a great set of speakers .  The   Manufactures need to be more honest with the consumers .

"This is just not true. Nowadays, Audiogon has about 150-200 listings a day in their New Today category (185 right now). 10 years ago that number was 250-400 listings under New Today. As the price of the ads has gone up, the number of ads has gone down. Again, fundamental economics."

That doesn't mean there's less used high end gear in the marketplace, it means less people are using Audiogon. Also, assuming "fundamental economics" is the sole reason for this is debatable. AG's system keeps getting worse over time. I've had so many issues with this site, the thought of buying or selling items here doesn't even cross my mind anymore. But I do agree that the high prices aren't helping. I remember when AG listings were only 2$. With sites like Computer Audiophile and Craigslist offering free listings, its amazing AG still gets around 200 a day.

The original N802 was a groundbreaking design with the boat tail cabinet and curvaceous polished Marlan head on top.  The speakers are still stylish 17 years later.  At the 5000.00 dollar price point they are still competitive with new speakers.  They also function really well in a combination stereo/home theatre setup.  Quality design and construction ensures lasting value just like a classic Porsche, BMW, or Ferrari.



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So, you are saying that companies don't innovate anymore, use cheap parts, and prices should solely be based on the cost of parts used?

it's not clear to me how many listings are really "New Today".  Lots of repeats from yesterday or earlier.  

Many, if not most of those, seem to be dealers. If we could filter out the Ayon and Adona listings, the number of "new" listings might be quite small. 

"Nothing to see here, move along."

90  percent on audiogon our dealers selling their old stock .

The good news is that the innovative low-end sometimes is in par with old high-end.
The trickle-down of technology lowers the point of diminishing return....sometimes.  it's a matter of finding the gems.
There are a lot of dealers selling on Audiogon now.
Many private sellers have taken to other audio sites like:
US Audiomart
Canuck Audiomart
Audio Asylum Trader

There are still a few dealers on those sites, but not nearly as many as on Audiogon.

"The original N802 was a groundbreaking design with the boat tail cabinet and curvaceous polished Marlan head on top. The speakers are still stylish 17 years later. At the 5000.00 dollar price point they are still competitive with new speakers"

I'm pretty sure they were more than $5000. I bought a pair when they first came out. Didn't keep them for very long, but I know I paid more than 5. If I remember correctly, I think they were around 8k.