Preamp Recommendations Lamm, Ayre K-1x, BAT 31SE


Curent System:
Ayre V-5x amp
Levinson 390S CDP directly driving the Ayre
Dynaudio Contour 3.0 Speakers
Au24 speaker cables, Audience Power Cord, PS Audio P300 for CDP, Cardas Golden Cross XLR IC

As much as I like the transparency of the CDP directly driving the amp, the system is begging for a high quality preamp. I've never owned tube gear, but am interesting in trying a good one. I like what I have read about the Lamm LL2, the Ayre-1x, and the BAT 31SE. Of course there are so many other offerings from Hovland, Sonic Fronteirs, ARC, C-J, CAT, and so on.....

I listen to a lot of vocals (Joni Mitchell, Nora Jones, Lucinda Williams, Ella Fitzgerald) and simple jazz arrangements, and occasionaly rock (Radiohead, Jeff Buckley, dave mathews).

As lazy as it sounds, I also want/need a remote (which eliminates many). Also, for some perhaps stupid reason, I want it to handle XLR in/out since that's what I currently have.

Your thoughts and expereinces (especially Ayre or other good SS amp owners) GREATLY appreciated.
artg

Showing 3 responses by rayhall

I have heard a lot of the preamps that you are either considering or which have been referenced above. I have also included below some models which are relatively close to ones which you were considering or referenced above:

BAT VK-51 SE
VTL 7.1
VAC Renaissance
Ayre K-1(x)
Lamm L-1
Aesthetix Callisto

Of course, I heard these, for the most part, at different times, often with different equipment and different music. Most were heard side-by-side in A/B situations with at least one other mentioned here. In one or two cases, a unit was heard with comparison to something not listed, like the Hovland HP-100.

Of these listed above, the only one which I thought was outstanding in a whole lot of ways was the Ayre. It is smooth. It spreads the instruments out well in space. It reproduces detail, but in a natural way. It is just a little cooler than natural, in my opinion. The dynamics are a little understated. The phono section is superb.

To the list, I would add/reinforce Convergent Audio Technology Ultimate and First Sound Presence Audio Deluxe Mk II. I would also throw in the Herron. These first two sound quite different and do different things exceptionally well. CAT is known for smooth-as-silk, effortless presentation, incredibly solid and deep bass, stunning dynamics, sweet, mellow, lush midrange, great soundstage. Maybe not the best in EVERY category, but way up there in just about all and when considered as a whole, a very difficult product to beat. First Sound is stunning to me for its midrange transparency. There just seems to be nothing between you and the music in that range. Although it is quite neutral, you wouldn't call it that because vocals almost seem live. You have sensation of very low noise floor. Excellent soundstaging. Bass is good, but in my system, not as deep as CAT. Dynamics are good, but not as good as CAT. Transparency of the First Sound is like nothing that I have ever heard, including the CAT.

There are probably others, and I, just as all the others who have posted on this thread, can't tell you what to buy, but you can't say that you have surveyed the top preamp terrain if you haven't heard these two ... and the Herron.

Artg,
Understood about your requirements. Still, I think you should hear as much of the quality gear as possible in order to see if the gear that you end up buying measures up.
A CAT can be ordered with XLR out, but it will not be balanced. Not sure about XLR AUX in. Of course, not much point in XLR without balanced circuitry. You are right though. Neither unit has remote.

Ethifi,

I haven't heard the Supratek models. I posted on that thread "Preamp Deal of the Century", offering to put my CAT and First Sound up against a Supratek, but there have been no takers. There has been at least one other thread where one or more responders rated the First Sound ahead of the Supratek. Here is one:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1082540209&read&keyw&zzsupratek+first+sound

Note the responses of Kalan and Noble110. Kalan has posted on other threads about the virtues of First Sound. Kalan and I have the same model of the F.S. which is one level up from the standard model typically sold. For some reason, his seems to be on sale currently here on Audiogon. With that one and a F.S. Paramount on sale, which is one step up from the F.S. Presence Deluxe 4.0 that Kalan is offering, there is a lot of great product for sale right now.
Edmund,

Yes, the full name of the standard model is First Sound Presence Deluxe Mk II 2.0. I don't know how much better, if at all, the 4.0 is over the 2.0. I have only heard the 4.0. Moreover, the F.S. linestages have many options in the sense that many people send them back for little upgrades which are offered but not reflected in new model numbers. Sometimes, it is hard to know which unit is being offered and what "version" it is. If it is older than 1 1/2-2 years or hasn't been back to F.S. in that time, it is almost certainly not current. The local dealer network, depending on where you live, may not be that deep for F.S. products, but anyway, I think the product is very much worth consideration for how it sounds. Perhaps you'll do an audition of F.S. Presence Deluxe Mk II 2.0 and let ME know how it sounds?

Artg,

I can't say whether you are being too narrow in the way that you are approaching a pre-amp purchase. For me, there are always 4 questions to ask when evaluating anything new:

1. How good can this product sound?

2. How will it sound in my system?

3. If the answer to question 1 is fantastic and to question 2 is only OK, then am I willing to make changes to my system to make it sound fantastic with this new product?

4. How much will it all cost and are the changes worth it, considering the cost?

Beyond that, I am willing to listen to anything, any technology, any price range, even if I am not willing to buy everything. To me, its the only way to learn what sounds good. If, as you say, transparency and vocals are high on your list of "must haves", I can't say how you can rule out the F.S., if you have an opportunity to listen, without trying. These are the things it does exceptionally well.

I agree that you already have fine gear and for you, the answer to one or more of the four questions may mean no upgrade or at least none that I suggested listening to.

You may find that the Ayre preamp a better match to your V-5X and your Levinson player. As I said in my original post, the Ayre preamp and amp (I listened to the K-1 and V-1 combo) did many things exceptionally well. If the V-5X is a step above the V-1, that may be very much a keeper and worth building the rest of your system around, but there is no harm in listening to other things.

Good luck.