Preamp Input for Coincident system - Don Sachs, deHavilland, LTA, Joule Electra?


Hi all, I'm looking to spend around 2k on a pre-amp (either new or used) to pair with my Coincident PREs (currently using their Frankenstein mono-blocks as amps; input impedance of 100kOhms). 

I'm looking for something very natural sounding, with good body, some warmth, and -importantly- it must have a remote.  The PREs are very sensitive up on top, so I need clean highs. 

I've been reading a lot of threads and have a few contenders.  Am hoping to solicit some input from anyone who might have compared the following (with PROs / CONs listed):

1.  Don Sachs SP14 - good reviews, available in budget new / long wait to get a unit
2.  LTA MZ2 - some awesome reviews, available with 10-day trial period / some "meh" revies, perhaps a bit of a "clean" sound?
3.  deHavilland  UltraVerve 3 - good reviews mentioning the "relaxing" nature - a good key word for me / new it is out of budget at 3k
4. Joule Electra LA-150 MKII - in budget used, reviews mention strengths in "tone" & "texture" - highly desirable for me / a fairly old product  

Other things to note... 

I'm currently running a PS Audio PW DAC directly to my amps and listen to all types of music; perhaps currently tilted towards "modern" music with electronica and indie influences.  I stream Tidal via ethernet via PS Audio's Bridge II card in the dac.  

While I'm sure others will criticize the DAC, I really like the PWD and it has compared favorably to both a DirectStream (the music became less natural and more analytical) and Lyngdorf TDAI 3400 (the music was very smooth, but slightly less natural with a less well delineated soundstage). 

Unfortunately, the PWD has a bad volume control (throwing away bits at under 50% volume) and the new PREs really show that distortion off.  As such, I don't like listening at low volumes... hence the desire to add a pre-amp. 

Also, obviously I'd love to get Coincident's 101D pre-amp, but I need the remote, so it doesn't work for me.  I tracked the remote version for a long time and was hoping to save up money to purchase, but apparently it was plagued by technical difficulties and often needed service (presumably that's the reason Isreal discontinued it). 

Appreciate any input.

- Chris
128x128cal3713

Showing 11 responses by cal3713

@thaluza Thanks for the suggestion, that's exactly why I made the thread. I will investigate...


& @mboldda1 Unfortunately I absolutely must have the remote. I've been trained by a lifetime of whimsical volume adjustment...
Thanks again for the input folks.  A few responses:

1)  Lots of positive things about The Truth.  Given some of the similarities between my system and folks using that pre-amp (and that I have plenty of gain and am currently going direct from DAC), this might be ideal.  I just reached out to the manufacturer to find out cost and time.  Nice that it would be the cheapest option as well.

2)  I was looking into the Backert models... but did see them get beat out in a few competitions by the other models listed above.  Unfortunately no used units available at this time, although I'm not against waiting around and shopping (although I am motivated to move given that I can't fully enjoy low volume listening with my current setup).

3)  Thanks for all the positive information on the deHavilland units.  Perhaps that's enough to push it into the lead if The Truth doesn't work out or if I don't decide to order it.
@4hannons Really appreciate the offer... unfortunately on the wrong side of the Rockies in Denver.

@thaluza & @markwatkiss Just put in an order for The Truth.  Dual power supplies, 3 inputs, & "new" photo cells = $1050.  Added a remote ($300) & the upgraded wire options (1 OCC silver & 2 OCC copper; $150).  $1500 total with a 3-4 week wait.  Money back guarantee "if not shocked" and "the warranty is 1010 years (990 longer than Bryston!)."  Given all the positive feedback, the no-risk demo, and the fact that that's cheaper than all other considered options, it seemed like a good place to start...

I'll report back, although of course my only comparison at this point will be the PWD direct.  Thanks for your thoughts.
Thanks Charles, I'm looking forward to the listening impressions as well! It's been a long journey getting my PREs up and running and it's really nice to be finally getting there. Hopefully the preamp will put me in a place where I'm just tweaking the system to take it from great to even better.
Was looking through my old threads and noticed I had never updated this one. I lived with the truth for about 3 weeks. Unfortunately I didn't end up finding that it made much of a difference from my direct connection and I ended up sending it back.  

That experience talked me out of buying a pre amp for the time being, although I'm still very curious what adding an active unit would do to the system. 
Wow. Every once in a while you ask yourself the same question and end up running into an old thread.

As an update, I’m currently running a heavily modified don sachs ds2 6sn7 preamp. Over the past year and a half of ownership I’ve replaced the stock capacitors with Duelund tinned copper CASTs on my main output, mundorf supremes on the secondary subwoofer output, replaced the input and output RCAs with pure silver wbt connectors, replaced all signal wire with 99.999% pure solid core silver, and placed a copper shield over the power supply.

I love the presentation and find it much better than both dac direct and the truth. Due to the pandemic I’ve got extra time to listen and have been putting a good 3 hours a night into the system and really enjoying every album.

I’m also about to compare it to an eml-20AM dht pre-amp that I recently commissioned. I’ve long been attracted to the dht approach due in part to various 6moons write-ups and because Coincident uses this topology in their line stage. The EML tubes my pre is based on are advertised as the most linear, lowest distortion dhts available. Very curious to see how they compare to Don’s 6sn7 design. Parts cost before labor & commission is already higher than the DS2, so it’ll be an interesting comparison.
I'll also note that I have since replaced my Coincident frankenstein 300bs with highly modified (diy) first watt f4s (pure solid core silver wire on either side of the circuit boards, 1600Vs of outboard power supply with over 350,000uF of capacitors, naked z-foil resistors throughout the signal path, and precision matched transistors). The 300bs just weren't powerful enough for the Coincident PREs. I ended up with the f4s over a lyngdorf tdai-3400, pass labs xa-25, and atma-sphere m60s.
@charles1dad Indeed, I first heard about the duelunds from you and as always found that I heard the same thing when I put them in my system. I've currently got them on my pre tweeters and as output caps in both my dac and pre. I've tried a number of different caps and never heard better. I'll certainly update with some details of the Radu Tarta (Shiny Eyes, simplepleasuretubeamps) build. Thanks for all your posts, you're one of the few people with whom I find perfect opinion overlap when I try the same equipment. So valuable to have that information.

@mresseguie I made the updates in a number of steps. The only one I can't totally disentangle is the impact of the silver wbt rcas (installed concurrently with the solid core silver signal wire).  The primary upgrade I'd suggest is the output cap upgrade. I know a lot of people like the miflexs, but I found the duelunds to sound better in every way. I also preferred mundorfs to the miflexs, which just sounded flat and two dimensional in my system. Both duelunds and mundorfs produced much better 3d imaging.  You can read a bit more about all my cap comparisons on my system page (I wrote a lot due to boredom). 

It's more involved, but next I would consider replacing the stranded duelund signal wire with a solid core alternative (I use vh audio solid silver in cotton). People correctly talk about the wonderful tone of the duelund wire, but I have found that stranded wire blurs the imaging. My three DS inputs have the vh audio silver, stock duelund, and a single strand of the stock duelund run through a Teflon tube (you don't need 16ga speaker wire for small voltage preamp signals and tiny wires work just fine, see phono hookup wire, for example) so it's easy to do comparisons. I believe anyone listening to my system would be able to immediately distinguish between the three and would prefer the silver wire, then the duelund single strand, then the 16ga duelund. Again concurring with Charles, the solid core silver sounds more real than copper to me. I replaced all my amp, dac, and internal speaker wire with solid silver too and have never regretted such modifications.


@charles1dad Indeed, replacing the PREs' stranded copper with solid silver in teflon produced an immediately apparent decrease in distortion and increase in realism and naturalness. I attribute some of that to solid core vs stranded and some to silver vs copper. It's nice when science and subjective sound quality so clearly align. 

I've read some argue that the reason people don't like silver is that it is allowing them to hear problems that were previously masked. And indeed, the one time I preferred copper to silver, I later discovered I had a cold solder joint that was introducing distortion. Once it was fixed the silver path was superior.