I have not heard the Atma-Sphere MP-1 in my own system in many years.
My suggestion for the Aesthetix was based on what O_holter had already chosen. Safe bet that Aesthetix preamp and phono are a great match up, I know from ten years in my own system.
As Charles1dad and I both pointed out, it's about the tubes. Aesthetix and Atma-Sphere fill that order but the only way to be absolutely sure is to own both. That's difficult at best and why I suggested used Aesthetix (or Atma-Sphere) here at Audiogon.
Purchase at a fair price and take care, you can live and listen long term and see if the magic is there. If it fails you can put it back up here and get most or all your money back. |
From recent testing I have finally become convinced that the Io does benefit from a separate preamp. Even if clarity and detail is better going direct from the Io to the amps, the punch and "here-ness" of the music is clearly better with a preamp in the chain, at least in my system. Absolutely, I've been saying that for years, I ran the IO + Callisto in my system for a decade and the IO benefits significantly from adding preamp. Based on your description of sound and your preferences I would go for Aesthetix Callisto with single power supply. You should be able to find a near perfect one used here at Audiogon and although you must deal with more tubes there are countless options to tune that combo to best effect with your speakers. I don't personally think a solid state will deliver what you are after. I've done quite a bit of listening with IO and Callisto as well as countless tube swaps (easy to find old posts here at Audiogon). I think what attracts you to your current sound is the density and musicality of the IO so you need to play to that strength. |
My player consist of three 12ax7 tubes, and one 12au7 tube, Do they make a CBS Hytron for the 12ax7? Like many vintage tubes, not all types are created equal. I prefer other 12AX7 over the CBS Hytron but which brand depends on circuit design. For the Aesthetix IO it was Telefunken in 12AX7 position, Mullard 6922 in the 6DJ8/6922 position and (ONLY) the RCA red base 5692 in the 6SN7 position. There are other options and only listening will tell what suits your taste and system best but these are top flight contenders and should be considered. |
So far, the verdict has been in the direction of Callisto, but I like the OTL sound (or lack of it) so I am open to the MP-1 also. For now, for a lower price, the Einstein serves me well, also in the sense that I hear more of my phono and amp upgrades. The grip on the speakers is excellent. Perhaps a bit too muscular, not as refined as some preamps, can't judge, but a big step up for me. Budget did not allow the others (or, ideally, comparing all three). Albert, you are right that I am drawn to the Io Eclipse sound, all the more so since I changed from a worn Lyra Titan to a new Atlas nine months ago. This really sounds excellent. For some reason (German engineering?), with the new preamp, I have especially loved the sound with new elektro music like the "Vermont" LP. BTW I thought that a one-box solution would give less heat, but that is not the case, The Tube runs very hot, perhaps the equal to a Callisto with one power supply. I had the IO Eclipse here and ran it paired with Einstein The Tube, Ypsilon PST 100 preamp, The Messenger, an Allnic L-3000 (original small transformer) model and Aesthetix Callisto Eclipse. The part you need to know is the Einstein gets a massive upgrade when you remove the 12AU7 tubes and replace with 5814 CBS Hytron. I don't think you can prepare for what that does to the Einstein, you might be happy for a long time. This takes away a bit of the electronic but preserves the dynamics and resolution. It's different than what the others I mention bring to the balance but all are very good quality pieces. |
Thanks, Albert, for interesting advice, which I will follow. You probably mean the one 12AU7 tube (only one in The Tube mk2). Do you remember the type of 5814 CBS Hytron? I thought I remembered there were two in the Einstein but perhaps I remember wrong. I looked for nearly an hour today to find that tube, I know it's around here somewhere. I know the box was military type, brown cardboard and very old. Perhaps 1940s (or 1950s at latest). Audiolabyrinth
@ Albertporter, Hi, Will the 5814 CBS Hytron tube go in the place of any 12AU7 tube socket that is used in other name brands of components, never heard of this tube, where is it made, and by who, what is the projected life span, where do you get them from, Is there a specific year that is very good? Audiolabyrinth, this tube will work where 12AU7 is called for. I checked the Sams tube manual and it's electrically fully compatible. CBS Hytron is an old USA brand, found at specialty tube dealers and Ebay. Life span is determined by the circuit it's placed in, some equipment is easy on tubes and some are brutal, making for short life. The tube is extremely high quality as are most USA and Euro tubes from 40s and 50s. |
Audiolabyrinth
@ Albertporter, wow!, You are a asset to me, Thank you so much!, ....The tube recommendations you have given are being noted to try, what year and type Telefunken 12AX7 tube is best in your opinion?, Thankyou. There are not as many variations of Telefunken 12AX7 as some tube brands. Just be sure the bottom of the glass has the diamond embedded in the glass so you know it's not re branded. Second, know your vendor or have provision to test it yourself and be sure the tube is as new or near new. There are lots of tubes floating around that have been sold and resold as each customer filters out the best and passes on the duds. Last, don't take my recommendation as gospel. The correct 12AX7 is what works in THAT device. I've seen variation depending on circuit design and implementation. Could be the Mazda, Mullard or even the Siemens is better in the device you're testing. I gave advice on Aesthetix because I owned it for more than ten years and know pretty well how it responds to various tubes. Your Vincent player is not familiar to me so don't hesitate to test beyond my recommendations to discover what's best. |
06-08-14: Audiolabyrinth
Albertporter, I believe I have a 6z4 tube in the power supply of the player I have, what do you believe will be a good recommendation for that roll? I don't recall ever owning a piece of equipment that used the 6Z4 tube. The Radio Museum, http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6z4.htmlIndicates 6X5 was a successor. Check with the manufacturer to determine if this is a drop in replacement for that circuit. If so, I may have some suggestions. |
06-10-14: O_holter
Hi Albert Porter - you wrote "the Einstein gets a massive upgrade when you remove the 12AU7 tubes and replace with 5814 CBS Hytron" - do you remember, what 12AU7? I got the Hytron today, and have tried a few hours. Promising. It turned out, there was a Sylvania 5963 (green label) sitting in the 12AU7 position.
Thanks Oystein It's been awhile since we did those listening tests but we got the Einstein from Brian Ackerman who was the official importer at the time. Unknown if that was the tube in our test but I remember the CBS was more organic and removed some of the splash in the treble that I had issue with. Could be the caps or circuit have changed since then or perhaps the tube your's came with is an improvement from when I had my sample here. The value of these discussions is to instill the desire to TEST. Don't be afraid to put good quality tubes in there and see what works. Go slow, listen long term, be sure to allow warm up and break in time before making your final judgement. Last, be sure the tubes you're auditioning are genuine and in top condition. It's amazing how some sellers behave. I've seen tubes with as much as 20% transconductance loss with claim as NOS. At 50% loss a tube can be a real duds and some sellers claim there is plenty of life left at that point. If you can, test the tubes yourself. If you cannot, be sure the seller verifies you what you're buying. This can be the make or break detail on your final decision. |
Albert, when you tested the preamps, you obviously found them all good, but they brought some different plusses and minuses to the table. Could you tell a bit more, regarding The Tube?
O_holter (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread) There was almost unanimous opinion on order of to rank but you're correct, each of these were high quality and performance. The Einstein sounds more solid state than tube but your trial with CBS Hytron shows it can be more musical. Our test involved ten different preamps and/or phono stages plus combinations of brands to find what effect that would bring. We did our best to find tubes that brought out the best in each design. I have hundreds of tubes on hand, making that part easier. There is noting wrong with the Einstein, it has a personality as does every piece of equipment. The goal is to achieve best sound and final decision involves the room, the speakers and all the other components. The Einstein phono stage was judged better playing into Aesthetix Callisto than it's "mate" The Tube. Oddly, the Einstein single ended phono was chosen over the XLR version. Something not mentioned so far, the Einstein responded to AC cable as much as interconnect, so don't be afraid to borrow and try a few brands. |
The coolest thing about the Einstein was that you can optimize the tube for each line input
Jafox (System | Reviews | Threads | Answers | This Thread)
I forgot about that, an attribute definitely worth mentioning. As for the Einstein vs. the Callisto Sig., these both portrayed space with aplomb which says a lot as so few line stages truly get this right. ....Jafox (System | Reviews | Threads | Answers | This Thread) Agree, and in our test the Callisto threw a larger but less specific sound stage with more bloom. The Einstein sounded "faster" overall and the extreme highs had more sparkle and drive than the Callisto. Some in the group preferred this and some not. The Callisto and likely the Atma-Sphere can be tuned for more sparkle with tube choice. For Aesthetix, Siemens is an option that delivers predictable results. It's not my favorite tube for that circuit but many people love that combo. |
