Pre/Pro with

I've been thinking about using a pre/pro as a pre for a 2.2 channel audio only system. I'd love Audyssey XT and balanced connections. On this basis, the Integra 9.9 looked good, but there's one issue:

Some of my speakers cross over from the mains at a high enough frequency that maintaining L/R signal integrity to the "subs" is important. My Verity Parsifals cross at a recommended 150hz. Any pre/pros out there that offer "non summed" L + R sub outs?

Thanx in advance,

Parasound C1 and C2 controllers both offer two programmable channels that may be programmed as non-summed L and R sub outs. These have the balanced connections you are seeking (although auxillary channels are unbalanced outputs) and very good audio quality, but no Audyssey XT. The C2 controllers owner manual states the following regarding programming Auxiliary Channels 9 and 10
"Each of these two channels has independently adjustable high-pass and low-pass filters and provision for deriving content from any or all of the other eight channels, mixed in any proportion you like. Filter type can be “None,” “Lowpass,” or “Highpass.” Filter freq can be set in 5-Hz increments. The high-pass filter, commonly used to keep bass out of small speakers, can be set from 20 Hz to 1 kHz. The low-pass can be set from 20 Hz to 18 kHz. Mix Level sets the percentage and polarity (“phase”) of the new channel’s content that comes from each of the other 7.1 channels, in 1% increments."

The Parasound controllers were recently discontinued and are available at substantial discounts.

Thanks so much

Why are the Parsifals supposed to cross over so high? They are pretty full range speakers, afaik. Are you confusing the crossover to the bass modules with the crossover to a real sub?

In general, the crossover to the sub for most processors is much lower. You would also need an additional amp as the sub/lfe output of prepros is line level.

If you are looking to replace the passive crossover in the Parsifals with an electronic one, there are more appropriate units. For example, there's a nice deal on the nht X2 at This would give you the frequency you need but you would still need the additional amp.

Frankly, I would leave the Parsifal's as is and add a single competent sub for the bottom end, if you need more grunt.

Marty, even if you're just using the monitor only crossing it at 80Hz should be fine (specs say it'll do 55Hz). If you're using the bass cabinets as well, then I don't understand the problem.
Kal & Bob,

My latest room is difficult and correction in the bass is a must for any speaker I've tried there, despite extensive room treatment. (I've had the P/Es in 5 other rooms over the last 10 years - this is a first.) More grunt isn't really the issue - it's less lumps, if you will. When placement of the P/Es is optimized for smooth bass in this room, it's not only still a mess, but the monitors end up too close to the listening position and - as a special bonus - I lose about a half octave of extention (relative to the best extention that I've achieved with the P/Es in previous rooms).

I've happily been using Ohm 100s and Velodyne SPLRs & an SMS-1, but I'd love to be able to switch back to the P/Es from time to time. Therefore, the idea was to cross-over from the monitors at Verity's recommended 150hz and eq the Verity bass modules. A pre-pro with room correction would allow both of these functions - if the x-over meets the description in my OP. My preferred amp is an ARC VT130se (balanced in only - no phase splitter), hence the XLR requirement.

If the NHT x-over allows XLR connectivity, it would work with the SVS/Audyssey bass only version or my SMS-1. However, the description of the x-over function in the C-1 provided by Mglenn is intriguing in that a really flexible high pass - coupled with the low pass in the SVS/Audyssey, or SMS-1, would allow me to rotate lots of different combos of speakers and subs/woofers at will.

The pice equation gets interesting, too.

1)NHT with my existing SMS at $200, or adding SVS/Audyssey at $700 = $900.


2)C-1 at $2K plus SVS = $2,700 with greater flexibility and potential to add multi-channel/video later.


3)balanced Audyssey equalizer at $5K (adds full range RC and multi-channel potential down the road with a pre/pro of my choice)


4) single ended audyssey eq at $2.5 K (adds full range RC and multi-channel as above, but I need to use a different power amp)


5) sell the Parsifal/Encores

Since I have a HT "movie" room with a recently added Audyssey enabled Integra AVR, the flexibility of #2 becomes a bit less appealing. I consume music (software) fairly voraciously and the idea of building a multi-channel library feels a bit daunting. However, knowing myself, I might end up doing just that at some point (particularly since the only reason I use my HT room is to watch "Lindsey Buckingham at Bass Hall", which is the only dvd - music or movie - I find sufficiently compelling to warrant multiple viewings. Otherwise this is my wife's territory). If I ever build a multi-channel music library, I'd definitely want to utilize my existing compliment of music hardware, rather than the movie room. That fact makes #2 more appealling.

All food for thought. Thanks all for the input.

#1: If the SMS EQs and passes up to 150Hz, this might work. I cannot recall if it does.

#2: I would not invest in an old non-HDMI avr or processor today.

#3: The Audyssey Balanced Processor will not do any bass management or crossovers. It will recommend them but not implement them.

#4: Same as above.

#5: Your problems, your move.

Take a look at the NeptuneEQ. Use only two FR channels now and have the others for the future. One box solution.

Take a look at the Theta Casablanca. The 2 channel stereo is better than anything I've ever had... and the programing on the Casablanca allows to do most anything you can imagine.

I was advised by the local Audyssey dealer (who sold me the AVR for my HT room) that the Audyssey included x-over capability. Their website isn't clear, but I had a suspicion that it would be clear if the unit actually included x-over. Thanks for the clarification.

I'll be sure to look at the Neptune. OTOH, the SMS and the NHT are a sufficiently inexpsensive combo that I suspect it's a good first stab. It's just that I went back to your analysis of Audyssey and found it kinda compelling. I've found that it sounds good in the Integra AVR in my HT room (Buckingham last night, again), but from app 125hz on up, my music room is really in a different league. Part of me really wants to check out Audyssey in my music room.


PS Thanks for your input - I hope you know it's really appreciated.
"I was advised by the local Audyssey dealer (who sold me the AVR for my HT room) that the Audyssey included x-over capability. Their website isn't clear, but I had a suspicion that it would be clear if the unit actually included x-over."

The SEQ will not set levels, set delays or set crossovers. Those are calculated but must be implemented elsewhere.


If I'm reading the Neptune web site correctly, it appears that the unit has a single subwoofer output channel. Is that your understanding, too?


Raks, I'll be sure check out the Casablanca too. Thanks.
Yes but I was suggesting that you use it full range for stereo and leave the passive Verity crossover intact. That way, you also do not need another amp.

Got ya - never even ocurred to me!