No doubt an amplifier must provide sufficient juice to provide adequate output, and the most divine 8 watt amp will sound completely inadequate with a low efficiency speakers. But somehow, I suspect (sort of what I am asking)that lower powered designs are some how purer, more natural, as a result of a simpler, less complex approach. I'm not sure this is true, but I lean towards believing this to be true. It seems to me that high power output requires a lot of engineering and overbuilding, and that this affects sound quality negatively with too much complexity - in general. I think it takes great design ingenuity to design high powered amplifiers that sound as good as their low powered bretheren. But yes, you always need sufficient power for the speaker of your choice. I believe power requires some sacrifice in sound quality iwth advantages in sound quantity. |
Hard to put "better" into words, but easy to hear. I guess, I mean less mechanical sounding, more organic, more low level detail, a more natural sound to voice and strings. More coherent and better balanced across the frequency spectrum. More real? And in this context I'm generally concerned with voice and acoustic instruments - the criteria might be different for hard rock where other sonic attibutes might come into play. I guess my premise is that less power requires less processing of the source signal and that more information comes through as a result. The need to produce more power creates more challenges for the designer and more complexity. Of course I understand that impedance and sensitivity of the speakers play an important part in this, but I wonder if we lose something in the process of having to drive speakers that are inefficient, have too many x-overs, and have tough impedance curves challenging amplifiers, especially tube amplifiers. I think that amp designers try to make their high power stuff sound as good as their low powered stuff while providing more drive for difficult loads that some speakers present; I think that is one of their biggest design challenges - some suceed better other I expect, but I suspect (this is what I am asking) that lower power is "purer" and closer to the source. |
I think a great designer can design a great sounding high power amp. I own CAT JL2s which are 100 Watt, Class Triodes. They are powerful and delicate and among the best sounding amps in the world IMHO. But, the amp to my non-engineering eye is complex, lots of parts and lots of transformer - the amp weighs 180lbs! I think Ken Stevens is a brilliant designer, capable of designing a world class, high powered amp competive with SETs at their own game. But, I suspect he could do something even better if he knew that a speaker could be handle with just 30 Watts. Of course, he would have a much less universally useable amp - the JL2 can drive almost any speaker, and can be sold to many more potential customers. |
Pauly, I suspect you are right - more power = more stuff = stuff deteriorates the signal. That is my basic reasoning; although, I do think a great designer can minimize the "damage" and provide adequate power for today's tougher speaker loads and inefficient sensitivities. I started thinking about this because I own Merlin VSMs that are fairly efficient at 89db, and have a very smooth, tube friendly impedance load. I've been using the CAT JL2s, and beleive me I have no complaints, but one - the 22 tubes running Class A act as a heater in my room and in the summer time (I turn the AC off to listen)the heat can be a problem. I started thinking something with less power and less tubes would be a good idea for summer listening. I decided on the 30 Watt Ars Sonum Integrated. I was sceptical that such a low powered integrated could do the trick. Well, I heard it at NYC Stereo Show - it does the trick. It seems that, at least with the easy to drive Merlins, 30 watts of tube power is all the power I need for my tastes and listening levels. And, the idea of fewer tubes, fewer parts, less heat, just seems to appeal to me as a concept. It got me thinking, how much power is enough, and doesn't power inherently corrupt. I'm no longer looking for speakers, but if I were, it would seem to me I would want speakers that are easy to drive with relatively low power because it seems low power has a signficant advantage - IF it can drive the speakers adequately (the amp/speaker interface has to match).
FatParrot, I agree with you about rooms. I threw out that 115db, because I was calculating how load 30 watts could drive my speakers. I listen to 82-87dbs on average so I should be more than fine, but I did not want to "short change" those that need loud and louder. |
As I said earlier, clearly inefficent speakers or/and those with difficult impedance profiles must have lots of power to sound good, and a low powered amp will not perform well. But, a better way of positioning the issue is to assume that we start with an efficient speaker and one with a benign, easy to drive load (my Merlins for example, which "require" 18 watts); under these circumstances I posit that a 30 watt amp will always sound better than a 100 watt amp of similar design and quality parts for the very reasons Pauly states - to create more power, requires more complexity and this will always create more distortion and/or loss of information. I'm not doctrinaire about this (I could be wrong) but it just seems to me that this position makes sense. But there is no doubt that many speakers sound better, indeed require, lot's of power to sound good, some indeed reuire SS to sound good because their impedance curves are so irregular and dip so low that no tube amplifier can handle them. It raises the question as to why some speaker designers build inefficient, impedance challenged speakers. I'm sure there are good reasons because all designs are a selection of tradeoffs. What I am coming to think however, is that these speakers can never take advantage of the very best amplification (i.e., low power, simple circuits). |
Thank you for your responses. It is really interesting. I'm starting to see more clearly the primary importance of system matching and synergy, and the diffuculty we sometimes get into when we ask "What is the best this or that?", independent of system context - where the amp/speaker interface is so important. The answer is clearly very system dependent. This make answering these types of ("best")questions more difficult, more artful, but that is the nature of the hobby and speaks to the value of a good dealer, trusted audiogon members, etc that are aware that great sound (and tastes may differ) requires more thought and effort then buying the "best" this or the "best" that. A pleasure hearing your thoughts. |
I think the understanding of the relationship between a chosen speaker and the amplfier necessary to make the best of it is the key equipment relationship and the one that a good dealer could be most helpful in educating the customer. There is such a preconcieved prejudice towards thinking that bigger is better, and coincidentally more watts cost more, that we often go down that road without really understanding that you don't need more power than you need, and that lower power is always simpler and purer, and "better" if adequate to drive the speaker. Of course, some speakers won't be satisified with low to medium power, and you then you do need more power, indeed a lower power amp will not satisfy, will not be adequate. I therefore lean towards relatively sensitive speakers, with high and "flat" impedances to work best with tubes, and that can be driven by a wider variety of low (20 watts) to mid (60 watt) amplfiers. |