Power Filtering vs Power Regeneration?

About two years ago....I began experiencing the dreaded power supply vagaries which seem to attack my system every two or three weeks...πŸ‘€πŸ˜±β“
The analogue soundstage collapses with a loss of transparency and bass whilst the high frequencies become grating, strident and brittle.
This makes the experience of listening to records, worse than the truly bad days of CD playback...and it can last two or three days before gradually settling down...πŸ˜₯
So frustrating had this new phenomenon become that I bought a Shindo Mr T transformer based power filter into which I plug both turntables and the Halcro DM10 phonostage/preamp....πŸ‘€
Unfortunately it hasn't solved the problem...πŸ˜₯
I'm wondering if a power regeneration circuit like the PS Audio P3 would be more likely to succeed....❓
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I have a PureAudio 1500 regenerator and I plug my whole system into it. It has made a major improvement in all areas of the sound of my system It also has a battery backup so if power goes out your system will continue playing for 15 to 20 minutes. I have used filters in the past but none really made an impact like this unit. The PS Audio regenerators are also very good but don,t have the battery backup
I use a P3 for all of my source components. Clean, stable and low distorted power. Pure Power is another option but have had no personal experience with them.
I have the PSAUdio P10 and it works great. the latest firmware was a great up grade. talk to PSAUDIO they will help.
good luck Pete
I allways used passive filters. First the old Lessloss and now the Bybee Holographic. They really made my system better
I have power full tubed mono amps and only passive can drive all my system without losses indynamic, but I'm far from having listenned every power regenerator.
Now I'm watching in the grounding filtering direction with some Entreq products like Silver Tellus and Atlantis
Have you actually documented what's going on at the wall socket during those periods where the sound deteriorates? It would first be prudent to do that, so you are not wasting money on a (expensive) power regenerator. Another reason to do that is to determine the magnitude of the AC voltage swings, if indeed that is the cause of your problem. Because different regenerators will have different capacity to maintain constant AC output for a given variation in input AC. Two excellent brands of regenerator: PS Audio and Furman.

It's also possible that someone in your neighborhood who shares your AC or some household appliance is switching in and out, causing disturbance on your AC line, when switched in. In that case, of course, you need some sort of filter or dedicated AC lines, or both, and not necessarily a regenerator.
Look at this product:

Quite a few have upgraded from really good power regenerators to this passive product in my city. I personally use the lower end model called 6GG and it is just terrific. Music is so pristine, detailed and extended, it is a revelation.

If you must use a regenerator then look at APS Purepower
I have been using the Silver Circle Audio pure power 5.0 unit for a while now and must say that it really does work very well--more retrieval of recorded ambience, quieter background, etc. The unit uses a massive transformer to isolate, so it's a passive unit--it also weighs around 100 pounds, so be careful lifting it. I initially was looking into the APS Purepower, but was scared off by the negative reports on the company and its customer support--check the APS Purepower thread right above this one. If going the regenerator route I would suggest the PS Audio units, they are backed by a reputable company and from reports work quite well.
I don't know what goes on at the wall socket and have no instruments to test it...😱
I've had the Shindo Mr T passive transformer-based power conditioner for the past two years and can report that it does nothing for my sound quality nor for the monthly deterioration in sound quality....😩
I am assuming from this...that it may be a voltage spike so large that it affects the power supply of the Halcro preamp/phonostage. The sound quality is normally then affected for up to three days before settling down...😖
I installed the PS Audio P3 power regenerator yesterday and whilst I need to wait at least 3 months to see if it cures the problem.....I can report that there is a significant improvement in the resolution, noise-floor, bass extension and treble smoothness...and I mean 'significant'...😘
What the P3 also tells me is that the voltage from the wall outlet is a pretty steady 250 volts (Australia has a nominal 240V supply) and I have elected to output a steady sinewave from the P3 of 235V at present..👀
I will monitor the situation closely for the next 3 months but this is the first power conditioning item I've used to really audibly affect the sound quality for the better.....👍
Pani, A passive device simply cannot solve Halcro's problem, if the problem has to do with AC power sags or surges. End of story.

Halcro, If you search on eBay you may find an inexpensive chart recorder that can be used to monitor AC at the wall socket vs time. What is the wattage rating of the P3? Can it handle your amplifiers' peak needs? That's the big issue with using a power regenerator to supply an amplifier. Otherwise, good choice.
I use a PS Audio 300 (300W) to supply the front end of my basement Beveridge-based system. After 10 minutes, I would not live without it, just for its cleansing effect on the music. (I of course do not use it to power the Beveridge direct-drive amplifiers; they just plug directly into the wall.)
No amplifiers into the PS Audio P3 Lewm....👀
Only the Halcro Preamp and the two turntables...😎
Have you noticed if the degradation occurs during wet or dry spells in the weather?
It doesn't seem to be weather-related one way or the other...❓
It happens mostly in dry weather...but that's because it's mostly dry in Sydney anyway...😄
I asked that wondering if it is possibly related to grounding. Ground rods deteriorate in some regions and also arid ground (dirt) can be less conductive vs. moist ground (dirt). And another thing with tube gear, humidity can sometimes affect the sound.
That's why you could try some Entreq grounding machine. They have a 60 days money back policy.
No affiliation at all, just trying to help
No tube gear...all SS..😎
The reason I think it might be the effects of a varied supply voltage is that two years ago, the power company was working on the cables in our street for three weeks (substation is only 1/2 mile away).....and for that whole time, the sound was diabolical..😱
Watching the supply voltage as shown by the P3....it went down to 245V last night and this afternoon went up to 255V for 10 minutes. It generally hovers around 250V although the electrical gear is designed for 240V❓👀
I didn't realize that you were down in Sydney. Don't the records want to spin counter clockwise there? 😊
Of course.....what way do they spin where you are......❓😎
Tony, Can you say what "tube gear" would be more affected by humidity than SS gear? I don't think so.

The symptoms Henry describes do not at all sound like anything that can be caused by poor grounding. RF, maybe. Henry, what did your PS Audio do when the wall voltage varied up and down? Did you notice any change in sound quality? If it happens again, you may try momentarily bypassing your PS Audio, in order to determine whether AC voltage instability might in fact be causative. If you are close to a power station, there may be very high voltage lines somewhere near your house; those can certainly radiate RF garbage.
RFI is what I was thinking about when asking about the grounding. Poor grounding could allow RFI to muddy things up. Also, I was recalling that in the 80s a buddy of mine had some old (50s vintage) tube mono amps. I remembering him remarking that humidity affected the sound. Now that I am thinking about it, he also had Quad Electrostats. So that might have been why humidity mattered. On a not so related note: I notice that my system sounds better when the air temp in the living room is around 68F. In the summer when temps are in the mid 70s in the living room the sound is not quite as perfect or astonishing.
One last thing- I have no idea which way the records spin. I listen to records in the dark.
Ok, one more last thing: wide variations in line voltage is a big issue, Have you complained to the power company about it? I'm sure that the wide variation in voltage will impact life/durability of electronics, motors and lights.
I don't know if a 10 Volt swing in 250V is a big swing or not...❓👀
The PS Audio seemed to do its job and sound quality didn't suffer...
Did I also mention that it has cleaned up the 'noise' in the supply....not that I was aware there WAS any previously....but the removal of it is impressive...😄👍
That's a 4% total variation in voltage. I'd say its a big deal. I would expect less than 1%. Now, that's considering that the load in your house is constant. If something in your house is turning on/off when you see those voltage swings then it might be a problem with your house wiring and/or you are too far away from the transformer. I see 125VAC at my house. It stays within a few tenths until a load comes on. If both heat pumps are running and other things are on then I see it drop to 122.5VAC. When I power up my monster amp it gets as low as 121.5VAC but never over 123VAC while the amp is on. 120.5VAC is the lowest I think I have ever seen and that was summertime with the stereo on and A/C running. I have a dedicated circuit for it. It pulls about 5 amps idle current and the preamp/CD player, tt pull about another 1 amp. The power transformer sits at the street at the corner of my front yard.
That's a 4% total variation in voltage. I'd say its a big deal.
Then the PS Audio power regenerator should earn its keep...❓👀
4% variation in voltage should be no worries. If the equipment cannot manage that it can be considered to be problematic. It is useful to ask what voltage the equipment is set up for though. If 235V instead of 240V, 250V is boarding on excessive.

It is worth it to see if the PSAudio solves the problem. If so *then* we can conclude that the problem is AC related.

Just for the record: a 'spike' cannot cause the kind of problems described. Neither can the weather, unless its a secondary effect, such as people running air conditioners more and causing a brownout.
Tony, It is most likely that your friend's system was affected by humidity because of the sensitivity of ESL speakers, especially Quads, to humidity. Humidity affects the tension of the mylar diaphragm, AND it also affects the static charge in the space between the diaphragm and the stators. As I recall, Sound Labs have had a lot of problems shipping their ESLs to customers in the South Pacific, e.g., the Phillipines and Malaysia, for this reason. Thankfully, those of us residing in sealed, heated, and air conditioned dwellings in the temperate parts of the US have only minor problems with ESLs. ESLs are also temperamental at high altitude and in excessively dry air.
Hi Ralph,
It is useful to ask what voltage the equipment is set up for though. If 235V instead of 240V, 250V is boarding on excessive.
From the Halcro DM10 Specs:-
"Circuit contains extensive mains transient protection and fault sensing protection 85-240VAC, 50-60Hz
All voltages from 85VAC through to 240VAC at 40Hz through to 200Hz or 120V through to 340V DC.
Power supply will operate up to 270V rms but IEC sockets rated up to 240V by regulatory authorities."
If the voltage to the sockets has been 250VAC (and not 240VAC) for 8 years...could damage have occurred?

How's that for a simple answer? It sounds like the amp has a switching power supply.