power conditioner


I am almost done with putting my system together. I have a Mac 452 amp, Mac 550 cd, Mac MT-10 turntable and a Mac C2500 pre amp. looking to see would be a good power conditioner/surge protector for a reasonable cost. 
The room I am using the equipment in is wired with 15 amp wiring. I read a lot  the Furman and Panamax sounds like they are the same company but the equipment is very different. Any suggestion would be appreciated.
gbprint6559
Panamax and Furman are (now, and for more than two years) the same company - Core Brands. Their is not much difference between the two per se, instead it comes down to model and purpose. Furman is oriented to those who desire voltage regulation, which is very different than conditioning and surge protection.

I have a Panamax MR4300 and it is great. Conditioning can be observed on an oscilloscope, the voltage shut down from over/under voltage does work, the voltage meter is very accurate, front panel lighting has various illumination levels, I could go on... The price is reasonable too. 
While I'm sure that voltage regulation would be desirable what I have deciphered from all the opines over the years leads me to believe that balanced power gives the best improvement in performance. Balanced through all components combined with balanced power has brought a certain quality to my system that I would be unlikely to forgo. Balanced power ends up being like a natural filter. Common mode rejection in electrical circuits is a method used in sensitive medical and scientific equipment. It cleans the noise that you can't hear but that keeps one from hearing the music.
When I can afford it will purchase balanced power to run some balanced amps. 
While I'm sure other power conditioning methods are very successful and may be preferred by many it might be of benefit to explore balanced power. There are many threads throughout the years on this forum. Best of luck.
I have a McIntosh MA6600  Integrated, a MCD 301 SACD player and MR85 Tuner and use a Shunyata Hydra 4 Conditioner.  They do not limit current and really do work.  They went for around a grand new with 4 outlets and I got mine here for 400.00.  People seem to be constantly changing their power conditioners so they pop up often.  I am extremely satisfied with Shunyata and use it through out my 2 systems.
Ive owned a McIntosh MC352 for 10 years and I would never think of coloring the amp and robbing the life and dynamics out of it with a $#@^& power conditioner of any kind regardless of cost! These amps are built like battle ships for a reason, McIntosh was buliding battle ships back before any one even knew what a power conditioner was!Also, the power supply is fully regulated. I plug it right into the wall with a good well built power cable. My amp sounds amazing with PRAT abound. 

Matt M
I apprciate all your input and it was helpful. Going with a dedicated outlet for the amp and I will do more research on the power conditioner.
Thank you, and have a good day.
Balanced power is the way to go in my opinion.
Core Power Technologies Equi= Core 1800.
Good bang for the buck at a reasonable price.
On Audiogon: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/equi-core-1800-core-power-technologies-1800


Balanced power is the way to go in my opinion.
Core Power Technologies Equi= Core 1800.
Good bang for the buck at a reasonable price.
On Audiogon: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/equi-core-1800-core-power-technologies-1800


+1 for lak's comments. Balanced power is the way to go. There is Equi=Core as he mentions but also the Furman Reference series which is home audio but the P2400IT pro version is actually less money. Equi=Tech essentially created the concept for home audio. You should take a look at Audio Quest Niagara as well. This product was developed by Garth Powell who spent 16 years at Furman and wanted more flexibility to research his own ideas. Check out this video. Once you go with balanced power you will be be greeted by blackness in your system. Good luck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITkuBgFtTjs 
These components are system, grid, & music preference related. To find the right one, if one is needed, I'd go for the Cable Co. or like dealer that will let you try in your own system.

Good luck!

Several balanced options: Equi=tech, Torus, Furman (not the inexpensive models).

Other technologies: PS Audio, Shunyata, Audioquest, Isotek, etc.

Never really seen a comprehensive, side-by-side comparison.

But then, who’s to say what would work best with the power going into your house.

gbprint6559,

I've had good results with a used PS Audio Power Plant, acquired, cheap here on Agon. Its however,argued to death like cables and everything else,whether or not its beneficial.

I go against the grain and hook EVERYTHING including amp, to it with noticeable improvement. Even the plasma TV looks great on movie nights.
Purchased about 3 years ago, trouble free. 

A PP Premier or P3 can be found cheap with a little effort. If it doesn't work out, easy to resell.

no, you are going WITH the grain & have eliminated ground loops
randy-11,

I read many threads guys claiming that plugging their amp into anything other than the wall outlet "sucks the life out of it" whatever that means?

Otherwise yeah, the PP is a "magic box"

Thank goodness, I've never had one of those annoying hum/noise issues.
I have tried my bat power amp plugged into my power conditioner and direct into wall outlet....buggered if I could tell any difference so it stays in the conditioner.

Where everything else is plugged in, including the internet switch, plasma tv, etc etc
Balanced power recommendations are certainly worth entertaining assuming the OPs specification of "reasonable cost" extends to $2500 and beyond. 
@falconquest 

And what about the High End Munchen 2015 - AudioQuest Niagara 7000 video you posted? I listened (at 1.5 or 2 x speed) the first 15 minutes and didn't hear/see anything worth remembering. 
Power conditioners always introduce warts that I can't live with.  I have top plugs, cables, and a whole house spike eliminator wired in the main box.  Sounds good to me.
Whichever brand you choose- gbprint6559
make sure the conditioner does not limit (steal) current from your system.
Happy Listening!


@gdhal
Not my issue if you choose not to learn anything. Maybe you should watch the whole video. Just a suggestion.
@falconquest 

Poor choice of words on my part in my prior post. Please accept my apologies.

I had a knee jerk reaction given that in your previous post you had mentioned balanced power. I didn't hear anything in the video explain or otherwise address that. Additionally, while you did mention the Audio Quest Niagara, the OP mentioned he/she is looking for a solution of "reasonable cost". IMO the Audio Quest Niagara series (any model) doesn't meet that criteria. 
I read many threads guys claiming that plugging their amp into anything other than the wall outlet "sucks the life out of it" whatever that means?
Power conditioners are tricky. Many of them force you to use its power cord which is not good if you have higher powered amps as there can be a voltage drop across the cord that can affect the amp (and reduce its total power).

If the conditioner has magnetics in it, often you don't want to run it past 50% of its maximum rating as it can introduce distortion, which is not good for most power supplies.

So far the best power conditioners we've seen were made by Elgar, who was making them for commercial/industrial applications. They can regulate the AC voltage and have no more than about 1% distortion running at their maximum current rating- the most common model handles about 28 amps continuous! They blow all the conditioners mentioned so far as well as a lot that have not right out of the water.

The one problem though it that they are noisy, as they employ cooling fans for the feedback amps in the conditioner. The way they work is they have an enormous isolation transformer inside that does the heavy lifting. This transformer has a feedback winding that also is employed as a bucking winding. The feedback amp is fairly high power, and takes its signal from a comparator circuit that compares the output to a low distortion 60 Hz oscillator that is synchronously locked to the AC line frequency. 

Elgar does not make these units anymore as the commercial conditioner market dried up a long time ago. So they usually have to be rebuilt when you find them, which is usually on ebay. If you pay $3500 for the unit plus refurbishment you are in the ballpark. The way to use them is to have them power the AC lines that feed your audio room and have the unit near your breaker box, wired in by an electrician. 

The upside is that they are the very best available price no object, and by comparison all the high end audio conditioners we've seen are so much junk.

Here is a lower powered version that can do about 10 amps:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ELGAR-6006B-LINE-CONDITIONER-57-63Hz-115VAC-6000B-SERIES-1kVA-WORKS-GREAT/2...
@atmasphere

Always a pleasure to read from you in any thread.

Could you please provide your opinion (succinctly) about balanced power conditioners, with an emphasis on whatever advantage they bring to the table in comparison to non-balanced conditioners?
@atmasphere 

Always appreciate your input. So, as Elgar is not available anymore, what brands/models do you know of that work well?
Could you please provide your opinion (succinctly) about balanced power conditioners, with an emphasis on whatever advantage they bring to the table in comparison to non-balanced conditioners?
Balanced power is nice if you can pull it off without introducing other problems. It is useful for lowering susceptibility to noise on the line. Often it is done by using an isolation transformer of some sort. If this is the case, the transformer should not be operated past 50% of its continuous rated power (else distortion will be a problem and that will overshadow any advantage brought by balancing the power).


So, as Elgar is not available anymore, what brands/models do you know of that work well?
The PS Audio Power station uses a regeneration technique that works pretty well as long as the unit is run well below its recommended maximums.

For our amps that has often meant one of them per channel. They may have a bigger model now. If the amp places a heavy draw on the unit on an on-going basis, it is best to go with the next size up. But I would still audition it against the raw wall power.

Balanced power is nice if you can pull it off without introducing other problems. It is useful for lowering susceptibility to noise on the line. Often it is done by using an isolation transformer of some sort. If this is the case, the transformer should not be operated past 50% of its continuous rated power (else distortion will be a problem and that will overshadow any advantage brought by balancing the power).

Thank you, @atmasphere

I’ll keep your reply handy if you don’t mind. Of late where ever I might happen to post on this forum invariably someone throws out the notion of balanced power (and proposes a $2500+ device that purported delivers it) as though its a cure all for things audio plus the common cold.
Of late where ever I might happen to post on this forum invariably someone throws out the notion of balanced power (and proposes a $2500+ device that purported delivers it) as though its a cure all for things audio plus the common cold.
Its a fact that clean power helps the system sound better. But for that kind of money, I'd put it on a used Elgar and get it refurbished- the money will be better spent.
http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649392091-topaz-7500vawatt-ultraisolation-transformer-for-krellpa...

Purchase one of these transformers. Main circuit box to the transformer to subpanel which will power all your audio outlets.


Perhaps this will help the conversation.....

 http://www.equitech.com/lifting-the-grounding-enigma/

BTW, I paid $950.00 for my balanced power conditioner right here on the 'gon.
Start with buying 1 PS Audio Noise Harvester ( $75 form Music Direct
or 2 for $100 )  , if the light blinks anytime other than when your 
heating/air conditioning is running then consider a power conditioner,
if it doesn't blink then you have fairly clean power , seeing will help you decide before you go out and spend a bunch of $.
A dedicated line is only good if you have a high current drawing amp ,
noise from anywhere in the house will still be on your dedicated line.


Have had Shunyata Hydras and PS Audio re conditioners.
Then I tried Equitech. Wow! Whole different ballgame.
There are other less expensive balanced power choices out there.
And if you are patient used Equitech shows up from time to time.
Equitech made my setup immediately sound like I had paid twice as much for it.
So I had to put one on each of my systems. Now have 2RQ, 1.5R, 2R and 3RQ.
The way it drops the noise floor is like your car stereo while you are driving and then you come to a stop. All of a sudden you can actually hear the music. And it does it without damping the dynamics like other conditioner types. Just my 0.02.
I used a Volume Increasing conditioner on my hair and it made it too loud. 
I have a Running Springs Haley and it made a huge difference. 6 outlets and amp, preamp, everything plugged in. I upgraded the power cord that came with it.
Oh no, Wolf say it isn't so... now you are starting to sound like geoffkait!
Yes. Just not on my palms. 
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Ralph - always agree that listening or as you say auditioning is key !!!

my LiL ancient but rebuilt trusty Mac 240 vastly prefers direct to the wall vs thru a Furman 15i

granted a fairly lowly conditioner!

who would you recommend to rebuild the Elgar ???????