Potential subwoofer purchase-a few Q’s


I feel like I’m going to go with Rythmik for subs. I will eventually add another.

i find lots of love for the F12 in my searches but what about the L12 or F12 300? I could possibly squeeze 2 L12’s In at once otherwise the 2nd would have to wait until later in the year.

the entire room is 28’ x 13’, the speakers are on half the long wall shooting across the short wall. The Pinnacle 10” sub I dropped in for fun next to the listening seat adds a lot to the sound so I think replacing with a better sub, then adding a 2nd would be a smart idea.

Thoughts on these?
gochurchgo
Drop 2-4 GIK Acoustic soffit traps in first. I stand mine in the corners.  You will most likely find that the ideal volume needs to go up.

THEN decide if you need to replace the sub, and how much of an upgrade you need.

Best,
E
The current sub is garbage to be honest. Plus now it hums which is fantastic. There aren’t 4 real corners in this place and it’s rented (I’m trash). Since the 3rd corner would be way over in the dining room I don’t see what that helps from the sitting position.
You rent? Save your money. First, because really good bass requires four or more subs. So no matter how much money you spend or how good a sub you get it won't really matter because its only one. But second, because you rent, so the more bass the more problems. So your money didn't buy bass, it bought complaints.

Way better idea, what will not get you problems but will greatly improve your system, including even the bass: Total Contact, HFT, ECT, Orange Fuse, Cones. Transform your system in ways you will really appreciate but without doing anything to tick off the neighborhood. 

The sub you have by the way is fine. Its the crappy plate amp inside it that's bad. All you have to do is find a suitable replacement. If despite everything I've said you're determined subs are the answer then Dayton makes a great sub amp. Get one now and fix your current sub. Then with the amp it will be a lot easier and cheaper to add subs one or two at a time until you get to four- which can all run off the one Dayton amp.

Search around. Swarm subwoofer system. Distributed bass array.

I must be the only person on earth who doesn’t have $250k to buy a small house. Amazing.

Way better idea, what will not get you problems but will greatly improve your system, including even the bass: Total Contact, HFT, ECT, Orange Fuse, Cones. Transform your system in ways you will really appreciate but without doing anything to tick off the neighborhood.
More info on what this means specifically?
For discussions abut the various Rythmik models, head over to the Rythmik thread on the AVS Forum. And take a look on the Rythmik website under the "Clearance" heading for reduced price examples of their subs.
I stack the soffit traps vertically.  You can put 2 in a corner easily.  And yes, they can help in the far corner as room modes are resonances. Any participating corner helps.

But it sounds like your sub is ready to go no matter what! :)
gochurchgo asks:
I must be the only person on earth who doesn’t have $250k to buy a small house. Amazing.

Way better idea, what will not get you problems but will greatly improve your system, including even the bass: Total Contact, HFT, ECT, Orange Fuse, Cones. Transform your system in ways you will really appreciate but without doing anything to tick off the neighborhood. 
More info on what this means specifically?


Not sure what $250k means but it sounds like sarcasm. Cool. My kinda guy! But if its supposed to imply you have to spend a fortune then you couldn't be more mistaken.

What that stuff means specifically is you're way better off putting money into those things than buying bigger/better components. All those things will get you much more sound for the money. Which always matters. No matter how much (or little) money you have.

Total Contact is the best $300 you'll ever spend on audio. Read the Mega Review. Treat your whole system and see. BDR Cones are only $20 each, with three under a component, source, amp and 2 speakers that's 12 for $240 and another big jump in performance. That's less than $600 so far and you absolutely cannot get anywhere near the improvement buying any speaker or other component for only $600 as you will get with these.

Same goes for HFT, which are acoustic treatment for speakers and room. ECT are similar, only for electronics. One ECT on my laptop improves video on my projector equivalent to going from 1080i to 4K. Its not subtle. My wife noticed right away. Synergistic Research Orange Fuse is $160 and another fine improvement, way better than a $500 power cord, or whatever else you might think of spending that on.

But then I see things different than most. I look for what is the greatest value. Most seem to look for what is the most popular. You pays your money and you takes your chances.
Rythmik makes good subs.  The lowest I've gone on their food chain is the F15, but I would expect the entry level models to sound and operate similarly, just with less output.  The guys at Rythmik are very approachable.  I'd reach out to them and get their advice.  I like Rythmik a lot, but you might also consider SVS and Power Sound Audio.  

I am an advocate for multiple subs, and if you go that route, the entry level models will work great.  If you're only going to get one or two, you probably want to save up and get something with more output for that space.

It doesn't matter if you rent or own your home.  If you "own" a condo, putting a bunch of subs in it may not be the best idea.  If you rent a house and it's well insulated, not 3 feet away from your next door neighbor's house, and you don't play everything at top volume at all hours of the night, you should be fine.  Exercise common sense and don't get put off by some of the condescending posts.
how much better is 4 subs than 2?
Much better.  Seriously though, I'm not sure how to quantify it.  Two subs can be great for movies if you just want to have that visceral feel of the bass effects in the movie's soundtrack, but for music having four subs is a subtle and at the same time dramatic difference.  Subtle in the sense that they don't draw attention to themselves, dramatic in that the bass fills the room (not just one or two sweet spots), and is immersive.  I'm sure some of our more eloquent members can describe it better, but I'll summarize with this - if you have room and budget, do it.
Rythmik, IMHO makes, OK subs. Find one of the Martin Logan, "Descent", model subs and listen to it. It will actually change the way you think about subs to begin with.  I tried them all. And the Descent subs are soo far past everyone else it is ridiculous. Maybe because they use "Real" servo correction and not "Feedback loop calculations"? That is just the cheap way to attempt accuracy. Better than nothing but not so great when compared to the real thing. The 7500Watt amp doesn't hurt either. I use three Descents in my main system.
Millercarbon, now you know I use 4 subwoofers but with a smaller system two subs can work fine but two subs is the minimum. I used a two sub system for years until I graduated to line source speakers then two was not enough to match the power projection of the speakers. I did not know the acoustical benefit of multiple subs in terms of minimizing standing waves. 
Jollygreen, the Descent subs are long discontinued. The New ones are called Balance Force. They are no longer servo driven and room control is an optional extra. The balanced force design is brilliant. It does keep the cabinet from shaking but contrary to the marketing does not reduce cabinet resonance. A very stiff enclosure made from acoustically inert material does that. The amplifiers are relatively standard class D affairs. They are inexpensive and efficient but I prefer AB amps with damping factor over 500 sound wise, which unfortunately means passive subs and out board amps but 40 years ago that was all we had.  
Millercarbon, now you know I use 4 subwoofers but with a smaller system two subs can work fine but two subs is the minimum. I used a two sub system for years until I graduated to line source speakers then two was not enough to match the power projection of the speakers. I did not know the acoustical benefit of multiple subs in terms of minimizing standing waves.


Yeah that's what got my attention in the first place. One sub creates standing waves. Every sub. Every room. Its physics. We know this. The epiphone was to figure out the answer is lots of subs. With more subs in more locations they no longer have to be very big or powerful because there's so many. And being in so many different locations the modes or standing waves they create are all over the place. So instead of a few really big standing waves you get to where they are so small and so many its almost like no standing waves at all. Its just brilliant, creative, genius! 

I recently had a guest over and he is one of those guys who has been to a lot of shows and heard a lot of really high end systems and even he was impressed. Which is freaking amazing considering my subs cost about $3k all together and my whole system is probably about the sales tax on a lot of them nowadays. Yet his comment was, " I heard fabulous clarity and fat, full soundstage. I’m not just saying. I heard and felt it!"

Note the "felt it" part. And what he didn't email but did say in person is the bass is totally integrated and at one with the overall presentation. In other words the "fabulous clarity" includes even the deepest bass.

This is because Duke and Geddes, et al, are right. Smooth bass is fast bass and the more subs the smoother it gets.

The physics is the same regardless of the room or the system. The only thing I can see changing if the system or the room gets a lot smaller is the subs won't need to be as big or powerful. But they will need to be many.