Doug as long as it's fun..you will never get bored! :-)
I wish I lived near..I would love to hear your setup.
I know you've been working on this for well over a year.
Looks like it's starting to pay off for you.
I have no doubt it works, I always liked the Eminent Technology LFT-8's and those Vandy subs are VERY fast.
Like Gmood1, I would love to hear it.
Doug I'm having some fun myself... playing around with this stuff. It may not be a super speaker system to others. But it is for me. My little system is very simple. I use a 6 wpc battery powered amplifier (Clari T amp). It's being fed by a Modded Toshiba 3960 player with a BVaudio SR 10 as a buffer between the two. I had the ClariT upgraded with dual subwoofer outputs.This allows the signal from my cd/dvd player to feed both subwoofers directly.My shunt mode volume control is only a passive attenuator..no active circuit.
The custom made Omega Grande 8's are perched on top of my active subwoofers ( Two Adire Ravas). This places the center of the drivers 36 inches off the floor (pretty close to ear level when sitting).Since my speakers produce their bass at 180 degrees out of phase. I have my subs 180 degrees out of phase. This gives a cleaner faster bass with less if any over hang in my room. It also allows for a seamless blend between the the speakers and subs.
I can put on some Ray Brown and litterly rattle the windows with his bass string plucks if I choose. At the same time hear the strings delineate into the air.
If I didn't point it out. No one would ever believe . I had a integrated amplifier that's small enough to fit in the palm of your hand as the control center.
I'm getting 26 db dynamic swings in some recorded material.
The funny thing is , I have never heard this system clip. At 10 O'clock on the ClariT's dial with most recordings..I can hardly stand to be in the room. It's just too much volume for me to really enjoy.
A year ago I wouldn't have dreamed I could build a system this cheap, that smokes everything I've previously owned.
I feel like I have active near fullrange floorstanders in the room now!
Enjoy your new toys!
ive done almost the same thing with my rig,ive found that i much prefer the sound of multiple sets of speakers & speakers with many drivers all in the same rig.
right now im running mcintosh xrt 22's that have 26 drivers per side & a pair of mcintosh ls320 monitors & a jm labs center speaker for a total of 59 drivers in my system.
i hope to run across another pair of xrt 22's within driving distance soon & replace the little mac monitors which would bring me up to 107 drivers in the same system,excessive................. maybee but i am awe struck at how music is presented thru lotsa drivers.
to me there seems to be a little somthing xtra special in the way a system with alot of drivers presents itself that cant be found in a 2 channel rig,so you see your not the only nut on the block.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts - two pairs of the ET's with Vandy subs would be an ideal setup. I have to believe the ET's also sound incredible with movies. Congratulations on a great setup - and you did it all for under 2K!!
Interesting idea. Similar to the flipped and stacked Quad's and Dahlquist DQ-10's of old. Sounds like a tweekers dream. Have fun.
Way back in the day I set up a crazy system that used Acoustat 1+1 electrostatic speakers flanked by Maggie MG-1 Improved speakers for bass.
The system was biamped and used a custom-built electronic crossover. I had a nice tube preamp feeding a Hafler DH-500 on the slim, 8-ft tall Acoustats; and a highly-modified Dynaco Stereo 70 feeding the bass panels of the MG-1's.
I'll tell you what, the system threw a huge soundstage and really rocked. Even though it was fairly ridiculous and almost defied logic, it was one of the most memorable and fun systems I ever threw together. And of course, back then, vinyl was THE premium-quality playback medium. As I recall, it was an AR ES-1 tt, with a Sumiko MMT arm and a Monster Alpha-1 MC cartridge. :)
Thanks a lot for responses; it IS a tweaker's delight! Who else has a story to tell about multi-speaker-madness?
If you like to rock or simply enjoy a very dynamic, low distortion presentation, increased headroom in both the speaker system and amplifiers is ALWAYS beneficial. From what i can recall, i've been preaching this idea for several years now. Glad you like it and hope it only gets better with time : ) Sean
PS... If you're a "rocker" on a budget and don't mind buying older used gear ( you're already on Audiogon, right??? ), two Klipsch Heresy's per side with four large home-brewed sealed and stuffed subwoofer drivers per side is a hard combo to beat. Very punchy mid-bass, solid vocals, plenty of bite in the guitars, pronounced cymbals with an extremely fast and tight bottom end that exhibits plenty of oomph, etc... If you can buy the raw woofers and build the cabinets yourself, the four Heresy's and sub system should run you about $1000 - $1200 at mosst.
Two NAD 2600's for the Heresy's and a beefed up Phase Linear 700B for the bottom end will get you over a kilowatt of power per side for around $1000. At appr 98 dB's of sensitivity for the dual Heresy's, the system will rock quite well without putting a massive strain on any of the amps. The slightly "mellow" NAD sound works pretty well to tame the potentially glaring horn sound of the Klipsch in stock form. The fact that all these amps have variable input level adjustments allows you to fine tune the balance between the Heresy's and the subs without the need for an active crossover. That is, if you want to keep the cost down and run passive subs.
Having said that, an active crossover will sound better and improve the performance on both the subs and Heresy's if you can swing it. Use the sharpest slope possible and keep the crossover point at around 40 - 50 Hz or so. Going higher in frequency will increase the bass weight of the system and potential dynamic range of the mains, but as you go higher and roll more of the bass out of Heresy's, you may notice that the kick drums will lose some of their "snap". This all boils down to personal preference here.
Personally, i prefer the Heresy's to La Scala's in stock form for most any type of music. They may not be as efficient, but they sound much more natural. The La Scala's require a LOT of work to really make them sing and most people aren't up to the tasks required. Besides that, the two Heresy's will cost less than one pair of La Scala's and take up less floor space / aren't nearly as ugly.
On speaker combining - Living across the street from a Goodwill in San Francisco, I have been able to buy a lot of what were once upper end speakers and play with them in combination. I did a lot of this - until I got married :(
Now there's no room for such excess.
The results can be really truly SPECTACULAR, especially when carefully combining very different types of speakers to fill in each other's weaknesses.
First off - the most important place to start is to make sure that the distance from your listening spot to ALL the tweeters and Mid drivers is EXACTLY the same, or at very least, concentric. In the case of 4 identical speakers, stacking one upside down atop the other gets close, but generally you'll have to tilt the top pair towards you, since the upper most driver will tend to be farther from a seated person than the similar driver on the lower pair.
Rather than an active crossover, I just used 2 amps and 2 EQ's, to tweak to the point of getting a reasonably flat freq. curve and a volume balance between the two different pairs that works. This can take a few hours (usually around 4 to 5 for me).
One incredible combo, for example, that offered surreal imaging and openess was a pair of early 1960's University 10" full range drivers in gigantic cabinets with a pair of Ohm Walsh 2's. The Walsh's, with their nice tweeters, filled in the highs that the Univ's couldn't do. And the Univ's lent a power to the mids and lows that the Ohm's don't have. Being responsible for most of the imaging, the Ohms were placed a couple of feet outside the Univ's - creating a huge soundstage. I sat only about 5 feet back from the whole thing, making it like giant headphones. It was some of the most incredible sound I've heard. Truly psychedelic. Total cost for all 4 speakers: $130.
Another very nice combo was Spica TC-50's sitting right on top of Bose 501's. EQ'd the mids of the Bose down (relatively) to prevent them destroying the Spica magic. Mind boggling imaging and the additional bass and bass coupling provided by the 501's made the Spica experience everything it could be. Way better than the Spica's alone.
The only downside of "pairing up" is the potential (certainty, actually) of phase cancellation. Techie audiophiles will wave that in your face, but it can be dealt with by careful tweaking, especially for one distinct listening position. The proof is in the listening, and as I've said above - it can be really Amazing.
Anyway - hope to proveide some food for thought for all you UNMARRIED guys out there....
The Comment by Sean regarding active crossovers has gotten my wheels in the mind turning again...
The Eminent Tech LFT-8's happen to have the pannels containing the mid/tweeter connections very accessable. One can easily work with the wiring on them without ripping into a cabinet (all one needs to do is remove the grill cloth cover which is attatched via velcro.
The thought: If an active crossover is far superior (and don't they get put in the chain between source and preamp?) Then maybe I could run the mid/tweeters of the speakers with active crossovers, and the bass leave well enough alone, using the crossover in the woofer box.
I could blend in the mid/uppers using the active crossover. Does this sound sensible/doable?
Since this started from LFT'S being ground zero, I bet a few of you already saw me post about buying just one pair of the LFT8's.
Doug Is one pair really great, and just gets better with another ? And also I will be using a HSU Research 12V sub with my LFT'S is this a fast enough SUB?
I may upgrade a mono amp for it, but my budget and wife will keep me in this sub for some time....thanks all Chad
P.S. I saaw someone say these are amazing for movies. correct? mine will be dual use aswell.
I'm using the LFT's both for music and movies. My philosopy is to get the best sound for two channel, and the audio in movies will take care of itself. So, yes, these are amazing for movies.
The LFT is a terrific speaker period. They sound great run as a single pair. And they do get better with four of them. For the money, I say there is very little lacking in their perfomance. I was perfectly content with one pair until I read the review using two pair that suggested such a phenomenally huge jump in the listening experience for such a relative pittance (especially if you purchase components used).
I know you're really quite happy with the performance of your current speakers, so I don't want to talk you into them only to have you disappointed. You would be wise to consider the at home trial. It would be worth it, I feel to try a quality sounding planar.
Regarding the use of your HSU subwoofer, i'm guessing that the compatibility issue would not be as much of a problem, since the speaker is a hybrid, utilizing a cone woofer. If it were a planar bass pannel, then possibly you'd run into more issues with the sub not being able to keep up.
It may not be a perfect bass combo, but perfect costs a LOT more. Of course, one can always upgrade sub too at later time. And, the low end of the Eminents is good enough that you'll not need to rely heavily on the subwoofer. Don't rush to buy an amp until you've listened and adjusted quite a bit; you may be quite content for a long time with your current sub/amp. Even room placement can be a factor. As well as using a bit of room tuning such as sound pannels. Can make a surprising difference.
Douglas, regarding active crossovers on the ET8, you might read this http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/MUG/messages/83818.html . Probably I'll be buying a pair and am investigating biamping both passively and actively.