Physical explanation of amp's break in?

Good points Ed (Eldartford), Bomarc and Charlie.

Sean, I have a couple of questions. You claim or at least imply that you know what you are talking about. I don't see any evidence for that in the words you throw together. If I may ask, what is your educational background? Do you have an EE degree? Advanced degree? What professional experience do you have in designing audio equipment? Really, it isn't the same thing as repairing TV's.

Everyone I know who has an EE and has designed components that have actually been marketed by big well known companies agrees with Bomarc and Eldartford.

I claim to know nothing, but based on my own experience listening to a variety of hi-fi components over the last 35 years, I think that, except for phono cartridges and loudspeakers, components do not burn in. And I wouldn't want them to. They should perform as designed, period.

Best regards,

Paul

I guess you answered my questions about your educational background. You aren't an EE. You've said you know what you are talking about because you repair things. I told you my firsthand experience is I have listened to an abundance of amps and have never heard one change from day one. That's all I claim.

A pretty silly grade school rhetorical device to ask someone for a technical explanation of why an imaginary event doesn't occur. As far as I know, the only thing that can happen is degradation, and that should be measurable.

Btw, I think I saw a reference to Carver amps in the AA thread. Do/did you like the Lightstar II?

The problem, Dmitry, is there are no profesionally measured data evidencing burn-in. It is a belief based on what people think they hear, based on what people expect to hear. I didn't ask about educational background to support the position taken on the issue of burn-in, but to support the assertion above that he knew what he was talking about.

After reading a statement like this, "anybody that tells you that components don't break in or 'settle' is either UNEDUCATED [emphasis added] about the subject at hand and throwing out a guess at your expense (IF you believe them ) or knows better and is blatantly lying to you," is it unreasonable to ask the author about his education?

Personally, I wouldn't care if someone never got past grade school if he could reference test measurements or a controlled study to support his argument.

No, I don't accept it as a fact, not do I deny it. Theories to justify the belief in burn-in are of no interest to me. I can't think of a less interesting subject actually, but I suppose I would pay attention to some test measurements. An amp had better perform to specs when first plugged in by the buyer. Then, so long as it continues to do so, it shouldn't sound different from day one. That's been my personal experience of using amps, though of course, I havent done a controlled analysis.

Take two identical amps. Do a DBT to verify that you can't tell them apart. Break one of them in. Then do a DBT to see if you can tell them apart. Do this with a significant number of listeners or a significant number of times. Come back and tell me the results.

Or, show me some bench test measurements in the range of audibility.

Oh, tube amps may change. I guess it takes tubes a few hours to settle in, and then they start downhill.

But, again, who cares? For me, it's like shoes. Do shoes break in? Of course. Should you go ahead and buy a pair that hurts hoping they will break in the right way? I never do. And I never keep a component that sounds wrong hoping it will break in.

LOL. I said? My words? Hardly. You said in your first post above, Sean, that "anybody that tells you that components don't break in or 'settle' is either UNEDUCATED [emphasis added] about the subject at hand and throwing out a guess at your expense (IF you believe them ) or knows better and is blatantly lying to you." I ask again, was it unreasonable to ask you about your education with reference to your claiming to know what you're talking about? Not the question of burn-in, but of your claiming to know what you're talking about.

On the subject of burn in, I later said: "Personally, I wouldn't care if someone never got past grade school if he could reference test measurements or a controlled study to support his argument."

Now, absent any measurments or studies, I'll trust my own experience, my own ears. It does happen that I know an ee or two with experience designing and marketing amplifiers who tell me that I don't hear a burn-in effect because there isn't one, but in the end, it's my ears that count. Yours too.

What I take exception to is your statement quoted above. You are saying that, for one example, the designer of some pretty nice equipment is either "uneducated" (that isn't true, he has an ee degree), "throwing out a guess," (nope, wrong there, he has done controlled studies) or "is blatantly lying" (shame on you for saying something like that).

You never said if you were familiar with the Lightstar II.