Phono stage for 0.2mv cartridge?


  I am looking for a quality phono stage with at least 72db of gain.  During this last year I obtained a Canary MC10 which sounds beautiful but I am somewhat volume limited and listen at such high volume control settings that tube rush has become an issue.  At 69.5db of gain I hoped that the Canary would work out but...
  Most of the popular stages like the Herron and the Manlely Steelhead seem to run in the 66-70db gain range.  Reviewers seem to routinely report on these phono stages using cartridges with low outputs but that runs contrary to my experience so far.  Any suggestions appreciated.

Bill
wbs

Showing 3 responses by wbs

I have no lack of horsepower.  I am passively biamping B&W N801s with an MC2000 and MC1000s.
Thank you for the conversion, Al.  I have wondered what the db gain is.  Actually, I am using my 0.2mv cartridge with the preamp phono stage with good results, slightly more apparent volume than the 0.3mv cartridge and the Canary.  Which kinda supports my position regarding how much gain I might want.
Uberwaltz--I have owned these units since new (whew) and the volume characteristics I have described have been consistent, and I have never considered them to be out of the norm.  The stereo is capable of live seeming volume levels in any genre and can be overwhelming when desired.

Bill
This discussion is interesting.  The replies are kind of what I expected, and I hope to understand this a little bit better.
 My preamp's volume control reads in db from -80 to +15.  I listen to a variety of program material and with some symphonic and much rock I like it kind of loud sometimes, up to 90 or 95 db (by my meter).  With digital sources this is achieved with volume settings in the -10db area.  Using an EAT Jo No.5 cartridge (0.3mv) connected to the Canary increases the volume setting to +5 or so for the same volume.  This is fine with me, with low background noise and plenty of volume.  Switching to either of my 0.2mv cartridges requires raising the volume to +10 or more for this volume level and I have found myself maxing out a couple of times.  With my volume control set this high, the hiss (per Al) from the phono stage starts becoming apparent.  More annoying typically with symphonic music.
  My preamp is a McIntosh C100, phono cable is Harmonic Technology.  I am trying to improve on the Mc's already very good phono stage.  The Canary is to my ears a large positive change and I hope to equal that if I can.

Bill
I respect these opinions but I think the system is OK.  It sounds really good to me, and I admit that my concerns are kind of fringe, because the volumes being discussed are higher than I think most folks usually listen at.  Actually, the gain is the larger irritant to me.  I know all phono stages are a little noisy, and the tube stage is louder than my SS phono stage which draws it to my attention.  But live rock albums should play at realistic levels and I cannot achieve those (quite) with the lower gain combination.
  Since they're right in front of me I do watch the big blue meters, and I am used to being able to peg the meters on the MC2000.  I can do so using the 0.2mv cartridge and the preamp phono stage but using the Canary I can only get about 90% of meter travel at full volume.
  Al, you are right about the amps.  When I contemplated buying the MC2000 I called McIntosh and asked if my proposed configuration would work.  The people there surprised at the question but finally decided that the amps should match OK.  Of course they didn't, and I have to pad the monoblocks down a little.  These days I use a little inexpensive one-input one-output balanced passive preamp I found on Amazon.  Works great and is easier to use than the inline attenuators I used to employ.  This limits system output to the MC2000 but there is so much power, and the preamp has a healthy enough output that any limitations are beyond my listening requirements.  My first 'real' system was an actively biamped setup using a homemade (by an EE major at Cal Poly) crossover and I had fun playing with it for many years, giving me a little background on this stuff.
  Previously I was using a Benz Ruby H with a Lucaschek phono stage.  The two were voiced together, I believe, and work well.  Using that combination I was getting volume close to the 0.3mv/Canary setup, could just peg the meters at top volume, and was pretty satisfied.
  I hear what everyone is saying that something isn't right, but so far everything still seems to point to my original contention.  The 73db of gain in my preamp's phono stage is fine.  Works great.  I was hoping to match that performance with a higher quality outboard unit.  I am aware of a couple of units but they are out of my price range, and I am hoping for suggestions to increase the field.

Bill