Phase inverting preamps


Apologies in advance for this newbie question. I was reading some reviews of preamps and a couple said that the preamp "inverts phasing" and that this would have to be accounted for elsewhere in the system. I know what phasing means, but how and where does one allow for it elsewhere in the system?
4yanx
There seems to be a lot of confusion about this. There always is. Mr. Ghost is correct.

Phase and polarity are NOT the same thing. A phase shift is a shift in time. A change in polarity is a change from a positive to a negative, or vice versa.

A simple example would be a 20 Hz sine wave that starts at zero volts, goes to a positive peak then decreases until it crosses zero, going negative until it reaches a negative peak and then returns to zero. Like this little symbol ~ .This is one complete cycle of 360 degrees. This happens 20 times a second so each cycle takes .05 seconds.

If this exact same signal had it's polarity inverted, it would start off going negative instead of positive, but would start at the same time.

If this exact same signal was phase shifted 180 degrees, it would start off going the same direction, but it would do so 1/2 cycle (.025 seconds) later or earlier in time.

Thus the comment about "flip the signal 180 degrees back to positive polarity" is wrong. If you are dealing with a repetitive waveform like a pure 20 Hz sine wave, than a phase shift of 180 degrees will look just like a polarity inversion. Draw a picture and check it out. But music is not so simple.

The comment from Mr. Brie is also a little off base. The recording is not out of phase, it has had it's polarity reversed. When you engage the phase button (should be polarity button)) you do indeed invert the signal. What was going positive will now be going negative, and vice versa. This can also be done by reversing the speaker leads. The common example is that of a drum that produces a very short WHAP sound. Lets say the initiation of the original WHAP sound caused a compression of air. The initial movement of the speaker cone should be towards the listener, which will also compress the air. If the polarity is reversed anywhere along the path form micrphone to speaker, the initial movement of the cone will be away from the listener causing the opposite. Whether this is audible is another story.
Of course, Herman. It was an attempt to account for the confusion w/re phase and polarity. But it doesnt matter in this context. All the preamp owner needs to know is to reverse his speaker cables, and not left to right as he was told. He doesnt need these 1000 word essays.
Phild suggested switching either the leads between the preamp and amp, or speaker cables.

Well, when I recently hooked up the Herron preamp (absolute polarity inverting) to the Herron monoblock amps for an evaluation I reversed the preamp to amp leads. Result - absolutely no soundstage and poorly controlled bass. I was so disappointed that I was about to send everything back. Someone suggested putting the preamp to amp leads back to "normal" and reversing the speaker cables. I did and bingo, everything was as I expected them to be.

Don't know if this is unique with Keith's gear. Can't explain it but that was my experience.
This reminds me of the old Marshall Guitar Amp ads which ran "It comes out bigger and upsidedown." (Still one of my favorite posters.)

Whatever you want to call it, it's part of the process. For the most part, all standard active devices used as voltage amplifiers invert the signal which means if a positive voltage goes in it emerges as a larger but now negative signal. This leads to another simple point that a "preamp" is poorly named because it is an amp itself.

Phase inversion is inherant to the process. Everytime an audio signal passes through a gain stage, the polarity
(some refer to it as a 180degree in time phase change, whatever) of the signal is reversed. The output voltage moves in the opposite direction of the control Voltage. If you like tubes this reads as the grid voltage becomes more positive, the output plate voltage becomes less positive and visa versa. Mr. Marshall would add "and its bigger too."

I am happy to do my part to add to all the confusion.

Cheers,
I remain,
Paulwp,

It seems to me that if we are to have an intelligent discussion about all things audio, then we should use the correct terminology. Since phase and polarity are so frequently misused and confused, I thought I would try to help by offering an explanation. I'm sorry if I used too many words in my attempt to do so. If I offended you by pointing out the error in your post, then I apologize.

P.S. It was 371 words, not 1000. Again, I apologize if this correction offends you.