PC or Line Conditioner


Hello,
Quite a few years ago I had a post asking people to chime in on what they would recommend for a good Power Cable. I find it funny because at the time I had the Ayre CX-7xe CD player, V-5xe Amp, and the K-5xe pre-amp. Now I have the V-5xe (in Black), K-5xeMP, and the Oppo UDP-205, using AQ Wind XLR IC's. I still have (2) Richard Gray's Power Company PC's and the RGPC-400 Pro. I find myself in need of more outlets and was looking at a used RGPC off of Ebay, but after talking with Gary, the tech guy, at Ayre he really believes that I should spend the money for the Ayre L-5xe that has (4) outlets. There is one right now on Agon for $1,400 OBO. It is not a conditioner in the normal sense, it is completely passive and there is no voltage regeneration or current limitation.
But I still am a fan of running a better PC than what comes with the component. Like I said I have the (2) RGPC cables and I just bought a Kimber Kable PK-14 Ascent. I would really like to keep the price for the cable under $500 but I also am giving more thought to putting that $500 to the Ayre L-5xe instead. All though I would be looking at more than twice what I would be spending on a Power Cable.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
David
f1wheels
IMO, the first step would be to install dedicated AC lines from your circuit panel, if possible. This would isolate your audio from other circuits and appliances that add noise throughout your AC mains.

Regarding power conditioning, if you have stable voltage coming into your house, you probably don’t need a regenerator. If you have had good results with the Richard Gray 400, then stay with a passive PC.
I’m not familiar with the Ayre PC, but it claims to be non-current limiting which would be a benefit to your amp’s performance. I believe the Gray passive PC’s do limit current, as many passives do, and your amp would be better served by going directly into the wall.

Sorry I can’t be more help, I just tried to point out the pros and cons of reducing the noise floor in your situation.

You’re already using aftermarket PCs, are you asking if you should upgrade? Changing one cable is not going to be all that noticable except for maybe a slightly different sonic signature. It seems like the priority is to add more receptacles while lowering the noise floor.

f1wheels

Much will depend on your locale. Are you living in a major U.S. city? If so, you might consider a dedicated line. Otherwise, keep the 400-Pro and plug the power amp into the wall. I own and use the 400-Pro for over 10 years now. A RGPC 600 will give you more outlets.

Happy Listening!
@f1wheels, First off as others have insinuated, I'd like to know if you have any dedicated AC lines from your electric panel, (and do you use any higher end AC outlets) to your system and if so how many?
Also what size wire and breaker feeds your system?
I realize this does not answer your question but it's important to know first.
Hi David,Have you ever thought of making your own power cord. I have and it saved me a fortune. As I live in the UK model no's and prices will obviously be different but to give you a ball park figure I recon I spent about
£540.00 on the supplies so what I have for that is ,
Neotech NEP-3001 III Mains Power Cable
Furutech FI-32M Rhodium Power Plug
IeGO Gold-Plated IEC Connector
SR Blue Fuse.
I have tried the cable in a comparison with a JPS Kaptovator at three times the price of the lead I made up and to also let you know I also put it through the  Ayre L-5xe  and I swapped between both cables. Now I do have to say that I waited a couple of weeks before I did the comparoson so the new cable would be burnt in . I put a Dab signal through a spare system I have in a work shed 24/7 for the fortnight before i was ready to compare. The difference I found between the two cables was so minimal that I certainly will not be buying mains cables at The JPS prices again. The only thing I did have an issue with was that the cable is very thick and stiff so it is sore on the fingers and you need to get plugs that can accept that thicknes of cable. If you are fortunate like I was you'll get a supplier who'll look into these issues and keep you right. If you try it and like it The  Neotech NEP-3001 III Mains Power Cable is super for making a dedicated spur just for your Hi Fi .
Whatever you decide to do good luck.
Regards Jim.
Hello,
First off Thanks for all of your replies! As for my house it was built in 2001 and I am located fairly close to Seattle (about 30 miles South). From what I can tell by looking at the breaker box I have the standard 15 Amp breakers in my front room. I did however installed two silver plated, cryogenic treated hospital grade outlets on each side of where all my equipment is. There is no way for me to run a dedicated line as I would be looking at tearing down a bunch of sheet rock.
Once I do my cap upgrade on my Thiel 2.4's I will try the main amp plugged into the Richard Gray's 400 Pro and then I will try it straight out of the wall. To my knowledge I believe he went out of business, all though you can still get his PC's on Amazon. But I only see his AC Conditioners, used on Ebay or here on Agon. I can also try switching between the Kimber and RGPC cables to see if I can hear any different. At the time I purchased the RGPC cables they were running right around $450 a Meter if my memory serves me correctly.
Thanks Again for your input,
David
OK, so no dedicated lines. Are you using any lighting dimmers on your first floor that introduce noise? I'm thinking that maybe you could move electrical devices from the shared line to a different breaker.

In any event, another passive conditioner is the way to go, not a new PC.
In your scenario, I recommend you purchase a balanced power supply, such as the Core Power Technologies Equi=Core 1200 or 1800 or the Equi=Tech 2Q (although the Equi=Tech company makes a variety of units to choose from).
I'm not familiar with the Ayre L-5xe, therefore, I don't know how well it would clean your AC power. You did mention that your were in need of aditional outlets.
Yes,
I am in need of more outlets as I have A Marantz AV-7701 Pre-pro along with a reliable Rotel RMB-1075 5 channel amp. So naturally I want to run not only the HT gear through a good conditioner but also the dedicated two-channel equipment as well.
As for any type of light dimmers or something similar that would introduce noise into the system I cannot really think of anything off hand. I could sell my RGPC 400 Pro and buy one of the 6 outlet RGPC 1200's. But they run at right around the price of the Ayre L-5xe.
What I understood from the whole power story, is that it's about a few things:

1. Stable power. Is your voltage around 110/120V constant, or does it drop and rise by a few volts. Power peaks can wreck electronics, so a surge protector is key here.
2. Clean block wave AC. This is where the problem lies and noise occurs. You can remove a lot of it with better cables and noise filters, but ideally you have a system to regenerate a clean block wave.

I use a PS Audio system to do the latter.
Once your power is "clean" (so from the regenerator outlet), keep it that way with high end cables.

I'm not a super expert on the topic, but this is what I got from researching it a while ago. Happy to hear others' opinion.

I'm not far from Seattle as well, if the OP wants to come look at the PS Audio.

This is what's inside a L-5xe.
https://audio.com.pl/images/0/6/9/24069-max_ayre_k5xe_v5xe_18.jpg

I find it a challenge to understand why these are 2.5K new.

WOW!
I was curious as to what was under the cover but could not find any pictures with the top cover removed. Now I have to wonder if the Ayre unit is even worth the average $1,300 for a used one?
I will take a look at the PS Audio stuff, I do see quite a bit of it here on Agon.
As for my power being stable that is easily answered all I need to do is get a hold of a multi-meter.
simonbelgium1 posts
... ideally you have a system to regenerate a clean block wave.
Would you please explain what a "clean block wave" is?

Post removed 
FYI: no one's power is stable, its always in a state of change, some worse than others. With that said, various power conditions will tame that change and stabilize it. My Equi=Tech 2Q has two different LED's, I can monitor incoming power or the outgoing power to my components.
I've also used a multimeter along with my Core Power Technologies Equi=Core 1800 and see constant voltage. I'm sure the same would be true with other good power conditioners.
f1wheels,

 I would speak with Richard Gray- but I believe you can daisy chain multiple 400 Pros. That way you could purchase an additional new or used unit and double the number of outlets.

Good luck!

N
Equi=Tech is very nice.

Torus Power also makes toroidal based products as well. Using transformers made by Plitron. Mark Levinson uses Plitron transformers, I believe.

N
I was doing some looking around and I really like the PS Audio Perfect Wave Powerplant 5. There is one up for sale right now on Agon for $2,750 with a new price of $3,500.
I wanted to ask does anyone have an opinion of PS Audio's earlier stuff like the P-1000? It is huge and looks to weigh at least 75 lbs it has 10 outlets total and sold new for $4,000. They are asking $1,800 OBO for it. How does their older products compare with the newer stuff?
Thanks,
David

Don't know anything about the P1000 but I have 3 P10's, two for my 2.2 system and one for the home theater.    I am not far from Seattle either (Eastside) and power is poor in my area.  I don't have dedicated circuits but am able to pull power from two different circuits.  I am listening right now and looking at the P10 displays.  One circuit has 6% THD in and .3% out of the P10, the other 4.7% in and .2% out.  I have my entire system running through the P10's,  Voltage out on both units is rock steady at 120.0V even though power in fluctuates between 115-119V.
I couldn't imagine being without.  They have dramatically improved my sound in every respect..  I went from being a clean power skeptic to a staunch believer.
I did some looking around and found a "one owner" PS Audio P10 on Ebay for $3k. On Agon right now there is a "one owner" P5 that’s in great shape for $2,750 with a New price of $3,500. It is one of your regular AV businesses that puts ads up on Agon. It does have a "Make Offer" so I could try a lower price. The P10 is beautiful, but looking at my needs I think that the P5 would cover my bases pretty well. Actually if you compare the P10 with the P5 the front panels look the same. It is the number and type ie; High Current, etc outlets that make up the difference. The P1000, 600, and 300 were made some time ago as you can tell just by their shear size and weight. I do not know how well of a job they did but are definitely large and heavy. I will have to read some reviews on the P5 to see what I can expect from it.
@f1wheels, I ran across this thread this morning, in case you missed it, you might want to read it: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/ps-audio-power-plants-2
Best regards...
OP: the "current" P10 and P5 units are discontinued.  They will very soon be replaced by new, "better" and more expensive units.  Any dealerships with brand-new P10s or P5s should be selling them at a significant discount.  So 3.5K is only the original price for a P5 when it was available.
With keeping the P10 and P5 in mind does anyone have an opinion about the P3? From what I read the P3 looks to be the same as the P5 just lower Total Wattage output at 750. It does have 8 outlets two of which are dedicated "High Current" outlets that are filtered and the other 6 outlets are "Regenerated". Like the P5 it allows for control over the web or a network and also allows for adjustable output voltage. There is one on Ebay right now for $1,699. It is in very nice condition but given that it's MSRP was $2,499 I think there is room for the seller to come down by $200 to $300.
I welcome your opinions.
Thanks,
David