while there are a few Bryston owners who use aftermarket pcs to some "better" result I think they are in the minority as most owners do not experience any benefits. You are better to spend your money elsewhere but if it makes you sleep better at night then try and audition a few with a money back guarantee and don't be afraid to send the cables back. You can get a few for trial via the Cable Company.
I am using a TG Audio SLVR with my 4BSST. The biggest difference I noticed was in the relative silence between the notes.
I read somewhere that Kimber Palladian cords are synergistic with the new Bryston SSTs.
Thanks guys for the responses. When the time comes for my next purchase I'll be looking into the above mention cables or a Power Conditioner(BPT 3.5 Sig or ExactPower).
Any thoughts on what would be more benificial.
It is my understanding that Bryston doesn't recommend aftermarket PC's...I had a B60...tried a PS labs mini PC and didn't notice much if anything...when I borrowed an "ultimate outlet"...I noticed that the power conditioning (with the stock powercord) had a greater effect than the powercord upgrade without the "ultimate outlet" there as much of a perceptable difference using either PC with or without the conditioning.
Which line conditioner should you use?...I have no idea as I'm completely uneducated with regards to them...perhaps some more experienced posters can recommend one as an alternative to a cable upgrade.
just my 2c
I have Bryston 4B-ST and 5B-ST amps, and upgraded both of their power cords. If there was any difference in the resulting sound quality, it was way too subtle for my ears. I'd follow Bryston's advice (their standard power cords are fine) and spend your money on something else.
I have owned both 4B SST and 14B SST amps. I changed power cords to VH Audio, ErnieM DIY Belden 9amp, and TG Audio 688. I heard no difference between these aftermarket cords and the Bryston stock cord. I'd suggest sticking with the stock cord...perhaps using an ErnieM 9amp cord to increase the wire gauge. But, you really don't need to in my opinion.
Some equipment will benefit from aftermarket powercords. I've owned many Bryston amps over the years, and I have not found any power cords that improved the sound of the Bryston amps. I have, however, found a couple that made the Brystons sound worse.
So, I stick with stock power cords on my Brystons.
I concur with those who recommend saving your money and spending it on more CDs, SACDs, or LPs.
Thanks guys for the input I'd rather spend my money else where. The fellow I bought it from used stock cord but he did use an ExactPower unit. Do you guys think a line conditioner is more in line. I'm trying to eliminate EMI/RFI wanting to create a black soundstage which I don't have.
Anythoughts on a viable conditioner that won't alter the sonic signature of my components.
P.S I still have $$$ to buy CD's. My local HMV as a buy 3 get 1 free limited only to Jazz,Blues,Classical.
Install two dedicated AC lines before you spend money on a power conditioner. Both my Bryston amps had inky black backgrounds with stock cords plugged into non-dedicated outlets. You might call Bryston and see what they suggest. Their customer service is impeccable, as I sure you know.
I'm sorry I've should have mentioned that I live in an apartment and dedicated lines is not an option. That is why I thought of a Power Conditioner. Even though I can't here it(Buzzing,hissing) from my listening position I know it's there and it bothers me. I just cant't figure it out.
If I must I'll live with it untill I move and get a dedicated room and power.
Tommorow I'll try to call Bryston and see what they suggest.
You say you can't hear the buzzing from your listening position. How close do you have to get to the speakers to hear the buzzing, and how high do you have to turn up the volume before you hear buzzing?
I hear buzzing from my speakers if I turn up the volume to 1 o'clock and I get within a foot of the tweeter, and this is with a dedicated line, and Hydra 4 conditioner and TG Audio 688 power cords. Most people, including the manufacturer of First Sound preamps told me this iis normal.
Sometimes the quest for complete and utter silence can get a little compulsive!
My listening distance is 10.5ft and I hear the buzzing from 1.5ft away. It doesn't seem to increase in intensity as I turn up the volume. I can't judge position with my volume nob but from 17dB-0db there was no increase in intensity. At +9 db maximum setting the buzzing did increase.
I've read that Nad recievers have dirty transformers hence the noise. What do you think I should do. I do have my reciever plugged into a Monster HTS2100.
Is it a loud buzz, or relatively quiet buzz? The buzz from my speakers is
pretty quiet...I almost have to put my ear to the tweeter to hear it.
I guess you have a digital volume control (or at least a digital reading on
your NAD), give me some perspective of the scale...what's the minimum
value and the maximum value? I can't get a feeling for -17db-0db and
+9db on a scale.
I'd try to borrow another receiver and/or amp + preamp combo, put it in
the system and see what happens. Do you have a dealer who will loan
you a demo unit?
Have you tried going straight to the wall? If so, is there a definite
increase in buzz?
Also, start with just your Bryston connected to the speakers without your
NAD or any source connected or plugged in. Does the buzz exist? If, so,
you can eliminate your receiver and source as the cause. Then, add
components one by one until the buzz returns. Then, you'll have traced
the cause of the buzz. Of course, if the buzz exists with just the Bryston
connected, you know the cause, and a call to Bryston is in order.
I don't personally believe you will solve the buzz with power cords, and
I've NEVER had a power conditioner eliminate or reduce the buzz from
my speakers. I've used Bybee Signature, Audio Stealth Magic Mini and
Digital Mini, Panamax something-or-other, Dezorel G2 and Hydra 4. My
feeling is speaker buzz is usually related to grounding issues either
helped or exacerbated by components.
I can hear the buzzing without having to put my hear right up to the tweeter.
The volume range on my receiver goes from -00 where there is no sound. The next step is -61Bd where sound buzzing begins and it ends at+9Bd.
Here is what I've figured out so far. With the reciever on but not my Bryston there is no buzzing. Once I turn on the amp the buzzing starts.
With the amp powered and the Nad off there is still buzzing. If it ends up to be a grounding issue how can I go about fixing it. I've tried my best at arranging my cables but things are pretty tight back there.
You need to unplug the NAD and physically disconnect it from the Bryston to check for the buzz. I say this because I've done this test myself, and discovered that often the buzz will exist even when a connected component is turned off. When the component was disconnected the buzzing stopped or was diminished.
If you have continued buzzing with only the Bryston connected, then again, I suggest you contact Bryston. While there may be nothing wrong with the amp, they may have an idea about a solution.
You didn't mention if you've tried going straight to the wall with the Bryston's power cord.
Grounding issues are a hassle. I've tried every method suggested here on Audiogon (do a thread search), and none of them have worked in my case. Usually, I've fixed the ground loop hum by trial and error of connecting and disconnecting interconnects, trying shielded interconnects, etc.
But, I'll admit I've never had a ground loop hum when just my amp was connected to my speakers with nothing else plugged in or connected to the amp.
Thanks for the time you've taken in trying to help me.
With the reciever completely disconnected there was no buzzing but hissing. I've tried connecting the amp straight to the wall and into my powerbar to little effect.
Believe I've tried myself and thought to give it anoher try. I wish there was a device that would pinpoint the problem instead of all this trial and error.
I have searched and found ground loop isolators ranging from $9.00 to over $100.00 but I'm leary.
OK, no buzz, but hiss with only the Bryston connected is normal. Did the hiss go away when the amp is connected to the Monster? If not, it would seem the Monster doesn't provide much conditioning, but perhaps some surge protection, which might be important to you. Otherwise, what's the point of the Monster other than a glorified outlet strip?
The buzz comes in when you add the receiver. Connect the receiver but leave it unplugged. Any buzz? How about when you plug the receiver in, but don't turn it on? Now, turn it on. Do you see the methodology here? I'm assuming during this you have no source connected or plugged in. If you do, then you can't isolate the problem to the receiver. Take it one step and one component at a time.
Are you connecting the receiver via balanced cables? If so, try single ended cables or vice versa.
I was doing this exercise once. I had no buzz with just the amp. I got a buzz with the preamp connected and plugged in, but without a source connected. Once I connected the source and plugged it in, the buzz went away! Who know why? I don't.
If the buzz occurs when the receiver is connected with a source, I'd try borrowing a preamp and see if the buzz goes away.
The hiss was still present with the amp connected to the powerbar. The buzz is Present when the amp is turned on. Connections are via RCA.
Here is what I've come up with so far.
Reciever on ,amp on but no RCA cables=no buzz
Reciever on,amp on connected=buzz
Reciever connected to amp but unplugged=buzz
Reciever on,amp off=no buzz
Reciever off,amp on= buzz
Source components connected/disconnected=buzz
At this point I thought it might be my rca cables but when I connected my speakers to my reciever like I used to have it the buzz was still there.
This is getting so confusing it's driving me to drink,smoke, and the night is still young.
I'd have to say it's your receiver. Borrow a preamp (or buy a good used one you can re-sell) and see if the buzz goes away. You can do a thread search for excellent inexpensive preamps. This question has been asked many times.
Also, you can decide whether the Monster is worth having. There are a number of good power strips available. Surge protection is another matter...OneAC, Powervar, Brickwall...all make good surge protector/conditioners that are high quality but inexpensive. Or, you can keep the Monster. :)
thanks for all the help. If I ever get this solved I will post it. I kinda thought it might have been my reciever. I don't recall the buzzing being present with my old reciever an Onkyo.
I'll try to see if I can borrow a preamp and do some experimenting.
One other option. Your receiver or amp may be an ungrounded design. I'd guess it might be the receiver since I doubt Bryston would design an ungrounded amplifier. For example, I understand from John Tucker of Exemplar Audio that the Denon 2900 is an ungrounded design. Who'da thunk it?
You can try an AC cheater plug on the Bryston or the receiver to lift the ground. Try it on one then the other. It may do the trick.
What is a cheater plug and where would I get one.
A cheater plug is an adapter plug that had three holes on one side (for an AC cord's blades and ground pin), and two prongs on the male end (thus eliminating the ground pin and "lifting the ground"). They are usually used in homes that do not have grounded outlets so modern three prong plugs can be used in older ungrounded (no third hole) wall outlets. Get one at any hardware store.
Thanks for the info. I guess that I would use this on the male end. I'll look into them tommorow.
Make sure the PC on the Bryston is not close to your speaker wires. If they are touching, that may be a problem. My hissing/buzzing dissappeared after I moved the PC away from the speaker cables.
Freakygreek - just be aware that it is called a "cheater" plug because using it to disconnect a safety ground is illegal. There is a very good reason why it's illegal. You can create a serious safety hazard by using a "cheater" plug to disconnect a safety ground.
Concerning cheater plugs I didn't know that they were illegal. I found out today when I called my local HomeDepot.
I'll have to rethink my course of action.
I don't know where you live FreakyGreek, but in Los Angeles, adapter plugs are sold in all hardware stores that I'm aware of, and I've never heard of them being illegal (certainly doesn't mean they aren't, but then why are they sold?). In fact, adapter plugs are often necessary because many homes in Southern California were built without ground wires, and have wall outles without the hole for a ground pin. Without adapter plugs, many appliances with ground plugs can't be used. Of course, the other way around is to install new outlets with holes for ground pins, but still without a ground connected.
I live in Toronto,Canada and I can buy them but not at a hardware store. According to the sales person at my local homedepot they are a banned item.
I was told I can buy them at the local dollar store but how effective are they I don't know.
Tvad - ground adapter plugs are sold so that you can connect a device requiring a safety ground connection to an outlet that does not have a 3rd ground pin, but HAS A GROUNDED OUTLET BOX. It is not designed to allow a device requiring a safety ground to be used without such a ground.
A grounded outlet box is one where the box itself is grounded. If properly grounded, the wallplate screw will be a path to earth.
That is why the adapter plug has a metallic clip or pigtail to connect to the grounded wallplate screw. It is permissible to use this approach, thus the adapter plugs are legal to sell.
Using the adapter plug without connecting to ground is "cheating," which is why it's called a "cheater" plug. Using it to defeat the ground is against NEC. NEC has the force of law in pretty much every locale in the US, so it's illegal to use a ground adapter as a "cheater" plug.
Also, installing new outlets without proper grounding, as you suggest, is illegal, incredibly dangerous, and stupid. If you had a problem because of the installation of an illegal electrical system, your homeowner's insurance could legally refuse to pay any claim.
Freakygreek, I've offered all the ideas I can think of. It's up to you to take action however you see fit. Best of luck.
Rex, you are correct. I was not clear in that the outlet boxes I was
describing are grounded, therefore allowing the use of the wall plate
My suggestion of cheater plugs was offered as an alternative, and had
been suggested to me by other Audiogon members when I had a similar
issue with ground loop hum. Frankly, the cheater plug never helped in
my rig, but it has helped others.
I retract all my aforementioned advice regarding the use of
"cheater" plugs, and suggest those interested in grounding
issues consult a local, licensed, electrical professional for further
Rex, do you have any suggestions for solving Freakygreek's buzzing
Many ground loops are the result of dc on the cable tv line or dss. If you have video hooked thru your audio system and have a bad buzz going, remove the co-ax cable from the input of the cable box or dss receiver..If the bad buzz vacates, then the problem is on the line..Also if you have several pieces of audio hooked to 2 or 3 ac outlets you may be encountering different ground potentials which will give you an offset and result in hum or a bad buzz.Tom
Thanks everyone for trying to help me.
Here's is an update to my situation. I went today to a local stereo shop and explained my problem. He suggested that I purchase a Audiophile APS unit. The 700 watt version retailed at 2700.00 Cad a bit out of my price range for now.
Just to set things straight I've tried disconnecting my cable entirely and the buzz still remains. The video is hooked up to my Monster Power Bar and from there to my TV.
All of my components except my amp are hooked to my power bar. The outlet I'm using is a switched one by that I mean a wall switch cuts all power. I've tried tackling this problem before by unplugging all house app and switching outlets the buzz still remains.
I thought some fresh blood this time around might give me some fresh insights.
Freaky, at the risk of being too opinionated, I'm going to say the $2700
Audiophile APS suggestion borders on ridiculous because you're talking
about a power conditioner with a price that is out of proportion to the
rest of your system, and may or may not be effective. Be CERTAIN you
can audition something like this at home in your own system before you
You said before the buzz occurs when you connect the receiver, and
goes away when you disconnect the receiver. This suggests the receiver
is the problem.
Will your local stereo shop allow you to do a home audition of another
receiver or preamp? Are you running 2 channel, or is your receiver also
providing multi-channel sound?
Here's another idea. With the system on, take a wire and touch one end
to a metal part of your receiver's chassis (or screw...bare not painted
metal...you get the idea), and touch the other end to the metal chassis
or screw of the Bryston. Does the buzz go away? Don't touch the IEC
outlets...just some exposed metal on the individual chassis. You're
testing to see if this provides a ground for an ungrounded component.
Sometimes Bryston has a ground screw somewhere on the back panel
that you can use for this. Perhaps the NAD does too.
Disclaimer: I am a hobbyist, not a professional. Consult a seasoned
professional for more complete information.
I really dislike lawsuits.
I agree with you about the power conditioner.
My reciever is for now operating for both 2/ch and HT duties.
Yes it is correct when the reciever is not connected to the amp and both are turned on there is only a slight hiss. The hiss does not increase with the volume a good thing right.
With the reciever and amp connected and both turned on the buzz returns. It also returns when my amp is taken out of the loop and the reciever running the whole show.
You mentioned the use of a wire can you give me any suggestions.
I have a better repore with another store a different one but I haven't asked them. Next time I visit them I will.
Tommorow I will call Bryston and find out about a ground screw and I'll try the same with Nad.
Freaky, any wire will do...lamp cord...some old speaker wire...anything insulated where you touch it and with bare ends. The ground screw will be obvious if you look on the back of the receiver or amp. Plus, you don't need a ground screw to do the test...just any bare metal or screw that's part of or attached to the chassis.
I asked about two channel vs. multi-channel because I wanted to know whether the idea of a different preamp or receiver was the right choice. So, you're using the Bryston for amplification of front left and right channels? Did you buy the Bryston from a dealer? If so, perhaps they can loan you a Bryston SP 1.7 multi channel processor to test. Otherwise, a different multi channel receiver. It sure seems to me the NAD is the culprit. Again, the hiss is common.
Unfortunately I bought the amp from a fellow Audiogoner.
Yes the amp is for amplifying the Lt and Rt channels. It might take some doing in obtaining a loaner piece of any kind, but I'll try nonetheless.
What would it mean if I try the wire test and the buzzing goes away or stays the same.
If the buzzing goes away, connect it with a couple pieces of tape. It made the buzz go away, right? So, it means it worked!
If the buzz is still there, then you're back to the beginning. But I seriously doubt any power conditioner is going to make it go away. Try calling NAD and asking them if your model receiver is grounded or not. If it's not grounded and the Bryston is, then that might explain the buzz. It'd also explain why the wire might work, because by connecting the NAD chassis to the Bryston chasssis, you're in effect grounding the NAD to the Bryston. At least this is what I've been told by others wiser than me.
When doing the wire test should the wire be at least a certain gauge.
Freakygreek - Tvad's suggestion is a good one, assuming the "buzz" you are hearing is ground hum. What often happens is that the ground potential between two components is different, causing a ground loop.
What you are trying to do by connecting a wire between the two chassis' is equalize the potential, thus minimizing the loop. You will need to make sure that you are connecting the wire to a grounded point on the chassis of each component. Chassis screws are usually good for this, and there's an easy way to make sure the screw is grounded if you have a meter.
If you have access to an ohmmeter or multimeter, disconnect the component from power and the rest of your gear. Set the meter to read in ohms, then touch one lead to the screw you want to use as a connection point for the wire, and touch the other lead to the outer sleeve of an RCA jack on the back of the component. If the meter zeros out, the screw is grounded. If it doesn't, look for another screw until you've found one that does. The screw is grounded to the chassis, and you can use it to attach the wire.
Your wire should be long enough to connect the grounded points on the two chassis' of course. Since you are trying to equalize ground by giving it a better path, you want the wire to be at least the same gauge as the ground wire in the thickest power cord you are using. So, if your Bryston amp's power cord is 14ga, you want the wire to be at least 14ga. 12ga would be better, but no need to get ridiculously large. Make sure it's insulated wire - bare wire could touch something else and create a bad ground.
Connect the wires as Tvad suggests, and see if the buzz goes away. If it does, you can make it fancy by getting some lugs so that you can more easily connect the components with the ground wire.
If it doesn't go away, and you don't have any other components connected, your buzz is probably not from a ground loop. It's probably from something like flourescent lights or an electric motor on the same electrical circuit. If that's the case, you will have no choice but to move the audio gear onto another circuit if you want to get rid of the noise.
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll try today to get an ohmmeter and test my componets. When using connecting the wire for grounding should I strip the wire or connect it as is.
Yes, Rex, thanks for your complete explanation. Nice job! That one is worth printing and saving in the audio file. (No pun intended).