Anyone with feedback with experience with their new line, please pass it on. My order is arriving the same time the dealer will be getting their demo line. It was a one night demo invite, and I couldn't resist, even after matching my cherry wood Signature 8's with my AV cabinet. Crazy?
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Hello tpinto, crazy not.
We were one of the first dealers in the country with the new Persona line and we displayed them at the last New York audio show so we are quite experienced with them.
The Signature's were very good speakers, the new Personas are an entirely different animal. The Persona play in the most vaulted of high peformance speaker arena and can easily compete with Wilson, Magico, YG, Rockport whatever, yes they really are that good, so your upgrading was a movement into a level of performance that the Signatures just can't compete in.
We have compared them to a $32k set of speakers, at $70k set of speakers and a $120k set of speakers, and the Persona are in that same level as the other companies and in some ways, resolution, and tranparency, soundstaging are better than most of the high end speakers on the market.
I will tell you that they require careful placement, they like to be spread apart a bit further then some other speakers, and when they are right the soundstage is one of the most panoramic I have ever heard.
They also need plenty of break in. 100+ hours.
Please run ARC and if you find them a little leaner than you like you can change the room gain and get a little more output in the bass.
We are playing them with the T+A equipment from Germany and they are absolutely amazing sounding together, so they do require the best cables and components.
you can see our facebook post:https://www.facebook.com/122499304489958/photos/a.122500301156525.22643.122499304489958/138072913200...
Troy, visting geek, Dave owner.
877 428 2873
Reference rig: Paradigm Persona 9H T+A P 3000 HV preamp, A 3000 HV power amplifier, PS 3000 HV power supply, Light Harmonic Davinci Dual Dac, Baetis Reference Music Server, or T+A CD 3000 HV, Enklein David Reference cables, Audiio Magic power conditioning,
Wow! Thanks for the great feedback and I will be sure to run the ARC. I'm dealing with Maxium Audio here in Tampa. I've become friends with their home theater guru. He just went to Canada this past week to see the production facility. He was talking about meeting some guys from NY, who have been up and running with the Persona line. Sounds like possibly one of you guys. He bought a pair for himself. He's dedicated his life to the electronics profession, and said these are the best speakers he's heard and compared them to Rockports and some of the brand's you mentioned. Small world! His name was Gabe. Shot in the dark. Really getting even more excited hearing these accolaids. Thanks a bunch.
Hey Rhodes where did you hear them at and what were they using?
I heard Audio Doctor's 9Hs and they were absolutely amazing, I think the results on this speaker are going to be directly proportional to the degree of setup and the quality of the components.
I saw Audio Doctor's setup top of the line electronics, cables and dac.
It may be that some of the dealers for this series may not have the correct demo equipment for them.
Where you thinking of getting a pair or was it just curiosity?
Well my Persona 9H are here and set up with the ARC. Sweet listen and astheics. I purchased the book shelves too. Didnt want to wait for their rears. Couldn't imagine them out performing their bookshelves. Mixing it up tonight, to start with. Some Jethro Tull, Supertramp, then maybe some Contemporary Jazz, like Chris Bottie. They sound sharp, crisp,and the bass blends in naturally w/o any overwhelming interference. Soundstage is tremendous. Moved the Signature 8's in my bedroom. I might be sleeping in my great room....lol the Signature 8's are wonderful speakers too. Paradigm Persona 9H delivered. The reviews so far are great, and deservingly so. Hope everyone has an opportunity to listen and enjoy them.
Congrats on the 9H they are truly amazing loudspeakers!
We would recommend that you check out the T+A line of electronics, they represent some of the finest sounding electronics on the market.
They are hard to find but well worth a look. They makes two more affordable integrated amplifiers in the R series and one flagship integrated the HV series PA 3000 at $19k.
The PA 3000 integrated was compared to $120k worth of CH precision electronics by Allan Taffel in the Absolute Sound. Mr. Taffel found that it hard to differentiate between the two! If you can compare a $120k worth of electronics to a $19k one and have trouble telling which is which it means the T+A integrated is an absolute steal and a way to get into the uber class of sound quality for a whole lot less.
T+A is the largest electronics manufacturer in Germany all of their products are produced in house and they have been in business for over 30 years.
They have a full time engineering staff of 14!
The HV series of electronics employs a novel high voltage rail concept which runs solid state devices at very high voltages, which is why tubes sound so smooth,it is the lack of distortion due to increased transfer function and linearity which occurs at high voltages, the HV series uses this technique to build very smooth and musical solid state gear.
The PA 3000 offers 300 watts into an 8 ohm load and 500 watts into a 4 ohm load. and it appears nearly limitless in terms of drive.
Add to that a huge sound stage, and a tremendously airy and involving sound .https://www.facebook.com/122499304489958/photos/a.122500301156525.22643.122499304489958/138072913200...
Here is our setup with the next step up PA 3000 power amp and preamp
if you would like to hear our setup and you are in the East Coast give us a call.
877 428 2873
As an enthusiast and dealer for some products I feel as long as we mention that , dealers can be a great source of information. I feel People don’t get into this industry solely for the financial aspect. It’s a passion. There are far more lucrative industries. recommending bad products or poor pairings isn’t good for one’s reputation. Audio Doctor displayed the speaker at NY Audio show so clearly they have a lot of experience at coaxing its best. I’m a big fan of berylium drivers and hope to hear these speakers again.
anyone in the NYC area have them that might be willing to host a listen?
It's not my place to say and I don't mind anyone expressing their enthusiasm for their music and equipment, dealer or not. On the contrary, I enjoy reading the posts of a number of manufacturers and dealers who participate here.
I was just feeling like this thread has crossed a line between interesting reading to all out advertising of two products. Just my humble opinion.
I agree jetter. This forum is all about sharing our listening experiences and our expertise. However, dealer hyperbole and sales are not welcome IMHO. I have suffered through Audiotroll’s salesmanship on too many different threads and I call him out every time he does it. That does not stop him.
By the way, I have always said that the Paradigms are very good speakers and T&A equipment is outstanding. I heard Audiodoctor’s presentation of both at length over 2 days at the NY stereo show last year and have heard T&A products and Paradigm products in different settings over the years.
Unfortunately, Audiotroll hypes these too much and will NEVER lend any context to the sound of whatever gear he pushes other than to maintain that it is scientifically indisputably the best in anywhere near the price. He will argue if you disagree. It is just not right here. If every dealer did what he does (and I believe most reputable dealers would maintain that they sell the finest products in their price range and can find Stereophile and Absolute Sounds reviews to support their position), what a bore this forum would be.
What Audiotroll AS A DEALER does not mention is the character of the sound. How many of you know what CH Precision gear (to which Alan Taffel favorably compared T&A gear) sounds like? Well, I’ve heard that gear on many occasions and it is very fast, has great bandwidth, great specs, etc--but some would say lacks musicality--a criticism leveled at other amplification from the likes of Constellation and Spectral, all great gear if you like that presentation; unlike, say, gear from Pass, D’Agostino and countless others which tend to be more liquid, but some would say at the cost of some transparency. By the way, I personally prefer T&A to Constellation and CH Precision, but not to other gear that costs less.
The Personas--again, if I could level a criticism-- it would be that they were just a touch on the hard/bright side.
Now Audiotroll will say that I don’t hear what he hears or that the time I heard the Personas the room was not right or the setup was not perfect and he may be right to do so--but I have no incentive to mislead anybody about what I heard because I have nothing to sell and nothing to gain by voicing my opinion for the benefit of others. Just to be clear, I can also find fault with every piece of equipment that I own and can describe those faults in detail, but have decided on balance that the combination of all of my gear works for me. We all make these choices based upon our personal preferences. Some love Martin Logan, others Sonus Faber. Therefore, I would not argue with anyone who thought that the Personas had no equal at a multiple of their price. They are that good for the listener who likes that sound.
But you will hear no nuance from Audiotroll--just how certain he is of his opinion due to his and Dave’s many years of experience with many brands---a position that can be taken by most dealers I know if they had the desire to so state here. Thank God they don’t.
Honestly Grpu you have your opinion and I have mine,
However, you have been invited to actually hear the very system we are promoting for yourself, and to judge if it is indeed a magical pairing.
When prompted you say you "have heard the system before, or at other dealers showrooms etc."
Maybe it is time for you to get off your high horse and put your money where your mouth is and come and hear OUR setup.and then judge for yourself.
I have seen here at least two well known posters on every thread promoting the magic of Vandy and Ayre, yet you never pipe up to dismiss any of those posters or comment negatively.
The gaunlet has been thrown down, COME IN AND ACTUALLY HEAR THE GEAR!
The Sound we are getting now is even better than the show setup, as we have added a Baetis computer and a Light Harmonic Dac both of those pieces are more rounded and analog sounding then the PDP 3000 we were using at the show, SO YOU HAVEN"T HEARD OUR CURRENT SYSTEM AT ALL!
I forget that of course you are the self appointed guardian of good taste. and propriety so I am sure you won't come down, and even if you met me and Dave, yes I would be there, I doubt you would dare report your findings honestly.
You also fail to read, that there have been other people reading these threads that have taken our advice and have been thrilled by the results.
In the case of two of these people one bought a T+A integrated not from us, and the other is also in CA and is going to an event to hear the gear.
We are gaining nothing, we have advised other people of speaker selection which didn't mention Paradigm, and offered assistance on room tuning.
i guess I do miss my point, the Forums are not supposed to be about one member harassing another.
You don't have issues with the gear, you don't have issues with what I am saying, you have issues with the fact that I go on posts and try to give people advice, which so far at least three people have taken and made dramatic improvements in their setups!
Yes sometimes the posts have our products in it, sometimes they don't, what I find ironic is on many of the posts, is how bad much of the advice given is and it is usually by people without direct experience with the products they are talking about, I know most of these people are commenting with great intentions.
Take for example one guys post to check out a class D amplifier because the speaker uses a Class D amplifier, that is silly, If a speaker used a Class A amplifier to drive the drivers other than the bass, then by that same logic you should use a Class A amplifier on the bass so they would match? The chance of finding an affordable 1,000 watt Class A amplifier that wouldn't over heat a room that wouldn't cost $100k is non existent.
We use Class D or Class H as subwoofer amplifiers as they can provide huge amounts of power cheaply and without heat or high cost.
And here is a fact, we have tested:
including a very highly rated $12k set of Ncore ampifiers and none of them had the magic of conventional amplifiers.
Analog switching amplifiers Chord, and Nuprime sounded great depeding on system matching. Nuprime sounds great with Legacy not so much with Persona.
The fact that you blatantly don't like us, is sad, instead of visiting the store, meeting with me and Dave the store owner, and getting a demo of our facilities and product selection which is among the best on the East Coast, you rail about impropriety about a dealer posting, when i see several members posting the same things over and over, all over the forums extolling the virtues of Vandys and Ayre or ARC and Wilson, you never step up with a negative comment.
The Paradigm Personas are brand new so many people haven't heard them at all, The T+A gear was never really promoted until now in the US.
So by doing this we are helping people to hear these brands.
T+A is the LARGEST ELECTRONICS COMPANY IN GERMANY, they are roughly 10 times the size of MBL or Burmester, which also makes them about 10 times the size of VItus, and D'Agastino, Dartzheel, Gryphon and many others, THEY MAKE AMAZING GEAR that is heralded all over the world!
Why do you think that is? Is it because of me promoting their products and selling a gizillion dollars worth of their gear?
THE TWO REVIEWS I POSTED SHOWED THAT REVIEWERS ARE BLOWN AWAY by T+A.
DO YOU THINK that MAYBE we are recommending something that is actually better? OR LESS EXPENSIVE then some of these other brands, and therefore, MAKING RECOMMENDATIONS that WOULD SAVE PEOPLE MONEY and OR GIVE THEM BETTER SOUND!
TO DATE WE HAVE GAINED ZERO SALES Based on these posts.
WE HAVE BEEN TOLD BY AT LEAST THREE DIFFERENT PEOPLE THAT WE HAVE BEEN EXTREMELY BENEFICIAL and HAVE PURCHASED GEAR FROM THEIR LOCAL DEALERS OR ARE CHECKING OUT THESE BRANDS AND HAVE LOVED WHAT THEY PURCHASED!
Maybe you should listen to the message rather then hatting the messenger?
@audiotroy so what relevance to this thread is your screed about class D amps? I think you've posted in the wrong place. And if you think we can't hear you - shouting isn't going to win you any friends. Finally the self important rambling about how much great gear you stock is just puff promotion. Could you please give it a rest and leave those of us with real value to contribute a chance
I haven’t purchased anything from audiotroy, but I have talked to him. He’s knowledgeable and comes across as being very nice on the phone. I don’t have a problem with him; because he doesn’t hide that he’s a dealer. There are a couple of people that are on Audiogon that hide their true identity and that’s worse.
Correct me if I'm missing something.
After a cursory search of this website and its guidelines there does't seem to be any rule or suggestion that prohibits or even frowns upon retailers from hawking their goods on these forums.
Unlike many other audio or hobby web forums whose soul goal is to provide an outlet for end users to share and compare their experiences I'm guessing Audiogon.com is more a classified users as well as retailers to sell primarily used audio as well as publish their website information.
I think most of us have experienced actual designers, manufactures, the press, and retailers, participating in conversations here and on other sites sharing their valuable time and helpful knowledge respectful of the spirit of the hobby.
I find it saddening when anybody who sees themselves as a half baked arbiter of the end all. In this instance it's not surprising that, ["TO DATE WE HAVE GAINED ZERO SALES Based on these posts."] If that's true then what have you learned?
Jetter you don't read,
We didn't reel in any fish, other dealers did! All we did was to point out that these are class leading products.
My point in writing these posts is to show the hypocrisy present in these forums, I have stated and shown that both the TAS and Positive Feedbacks writers where not just impressed but blown away by T+A 's product, as well as in Audio Stream.
Instead of people asking where can I hear this all I hear is what bad form it is to promote the products you sell by people like you and Grpu?
When I mentioned in one little post that a guy looking at a $50k pair of Wilson's that were too big for his room, that there was a new speaker that he might like and was $20k less expensive all we got was bad form,
what is the purpose of posing a question if all you want is a bunch of toadies agreeing with you? How will you possibly learn anything unless you are exposed to both new ideas and new products?
Have you ventured out to see if perhaps we and all these other writers may be correct and these products challenge the world's best yet cost less? I don;t know about you, but if that was me, I would be looking for my nearest dealer.
Now I know what you are thinking we are doing this to get rich, dream on, hasn't happened it is a big country and we don't ship out evaluation products, so unless
1: you have read my posts
2: you in the market for something
3: you have the money for something
4: you are not afraid to question if the product you are using has possibly been supplanted.
5: you are not so hot headed to be pissed off by our promoting
6; you actually like the product
7: you are on our coast and are close enough for a demo
Doesn't seem that likely does it? As I said we didn't sell one thing from these posts.
Why does a dealer promote their products? Do the dealers get their products for free or do they buy them themselves? I am not taking about making money, no I am talking about the fact that dealers have to shell out their money, I don't know about you but I know very few dealers that will actively buy products that they don't believe in.
If you notice most of the annoying parts of these exchanges have been one guy who doesn't like my friend, for the horrible crime of "selling" and believing in his products and actively trying to shut me down which then requires a length response to shore up our points.
Speaking of points, here is the hypocrisy, none of you challenge when particular forum members post and post and post the same litany of magic products with the same arguments, be it Pass Labs, Vandersteen, Ayre or ARC over and over again, but considering that they have nothing to gain their voices are acceptable as committed hobbyists while experienced dealers are not allowed to raise their voices to maybe tout the next big thing because that is advertising and or shilling.
just for your edification Musifx bought a T+A 2500r integrated not from us and loved it and here is a review of the boss man who helped end an almost year long search to find the perfect digital front end:
Absolute top tier DAC for standard res Redbook CD | Audiogon Discussion Forum
So before you raise the red flag of impropriety look where else that flag is being raised and what their motives are in raising them.