JL-Audio F112 .... No QUESTION it will blow you away!
The size is so amazingly small for a sub my F113 was so even smaller than my Velodyne DD15 and it hit harder too.
JL Audio knows subwoofers for movies..they re-invented the mobile subwoofer years ago... If you decide on the Paradigm for some reason, get yourself a 25lb bag of #7 lead shot to damp the cabinet (I used to do this with my Velodyne DD-15 and my older Velodyne F1800R, and it really helps load the cabinet)
The Paradigm might be better for 2 channel, and their speakers are a great value.
I usually don't post much here anymore but do have a strong opinion (and this all this ever really is) on this topic. I've owned Kinergetics, Paradigm, Velodyne, M&K, ACI, B&W and owned and reviewed the REL Stentor III subs and all I can say is . . . . the JL Acoustic Fathom f112 is so much better than ALL of them it was shocking. Fabulous build quality, amazing driver, has a nice ARO (adjustable room optimization) feature that really works (if you decide to use it) and, most importantly, goes deep with power, control and has beautiful texture and nuance. It blends so seamlessly.
For music, IMHO. this is the steal of the century, relative to other products it competes with (and beats handily). I am NOT exagerating - for me this is the best sub I've ever tried or heard at a price that is less, by a longshot, than anything else out there than could compete with it. To my amazement, it soundly thrashed the REL Stentor III which I thought a lot of. As usual though, this is just my $.02 based on my system and tastes and YMMV.
Thanks Guys, Looks like the JL-Audio Rules.
I would like to add the Klipsch Thx Ultra2 KW-120
Subs to the list.This Klipsch combo consist of two
KW-120 thx subwoofers and the KA-1000 amp(1000w@4ohms).
I heard this Thx Ultra2 combo today,and it was AWESOME.
The system goes low,deep,and loud. Also it moves lots of
Air.This Combo takes Home theater to the next level.
I am with Frank. The JL-Audio subs are extremely good value - outperforming most subs two to three times their price! Fairly low distortion and high SPL output at 20 to 40 Hz frequencies = JL -Audio is just what you want from a sub (and unfortunately what most subs fail to do miserably and IMHO, most are no more than a small coffee stand or place to rest your feet!)
Great day today,I auditioned both the Signature Servo
and the JL-Audio F113.The Subs were at different audio
stores.I used a DTS Demo disc that I made with scences
Jurassic Park 3,,,Omar Hakim(music from DTS Alive 2006).
First up was the Signature servo,It was very good,,powerful
bass,,it when low,,and moved lots of Air,,and hit very hard.I was impressed!!!
Next up the JL-Audio Audio,The built quality is out of this World,,,,Can you say HEAVY!!!!!
The JL-Audio F113 did everything the Servo did,but much
better.Also the F113 had tighter and Faster bass. There was
a quality to the bass,and it seem to go lower.
After hearing both Subwoofers, the F113 is in a Class
by itself.I ordered a F113 today.
Alpha3, unless you happened to have the same main speakers in both situations, it's unlikely that you were hearing differences in the subs.
Bob reynolds: Sorry but I disagree, if you can't feel the hit the JLAudio F113 produces you must be passed out... it's not subtle the difference...
Cytocycle, I'm sure the JL Audio subs are excellent. Trying to compare two different speaker systems in two different dealer showrooms and then drawing conclusions about the different subs seems like a salesman's paradise (at least for the one with the product getting the latest positive press) to me.
Bob: I would normally totally agree with you but I have owned two of the big velodyne at the same time with the JLaudio and my Wilson Watch dog... the differences in the same system were rather large over both the 15" and 18" velodyne as far as movie Impacts... for 2 channel music the Wilson sub is considerably faster and more tuneful.. I've felt the Paradigm before and it was great but the JLaudio was excellent.. For movies outputs Velodyne DD or the JLAudio....
This isn't just another press thing... I had JL audio subs in my truck years ago and they were amazing in a small sealed box.... SUBS is what they do!
I own DD-18 and my brother owns Revel B30.
I like Revel B30 better for music sound quality.
But I like the DD-18 better for movies.
I'm sidding with Bob Reynolds, in regards to his inferences here. Just because you heard one setup vs another, you are dealing with a great deal of variables that, unless you're expert at knowing how the system, seating, room acoustics, sub settings, EQ, speaker/sub integration, main speaker settings, phase settings, and on an on, you simply can't make ANY REAL WORLD JUDGEMENT OF ACCURACY regarding the differences between the two subs! When someone tells me one sub at one store sounding sooooo much better than another, I HAVE TO LAUGH!!!
Been doing this for decades now, worked in many high end stores, did custom systems, all the trade shows, acoustical engineer by trade, audiophile tweak, etc.- and I can tell you that your assumptions don't mean so much in the context I mentioned, and not knowing how it will all tie in with your system at home!
To say "Sorry but I disagree, if you can't feel the hit the JLAudio F113 produces you must be passed out... IT'S NOT A SUBTLE DIFFERENCE(???)(cytocycle), is a statement that is not qualified, pertinent, accurate, nor specific enough to gauge anything by! I've personally had some of the biggest baddest subwoofers on the planet in different settings, and in different systems, on enough occasions to know that you can set these things up in so many different configurations, that you can actually get virtually NO BASE from your system, sub installed!!! It's so easy to cancel out base, have settings and placement off, phase, acoustical holes, etc, that you simply can't walk into some room you know NOTHING ABOUT, and make assumptions and or accurate assessments on one piece of gear IN A WHOLE SYSTEM!
All I'm saying is that subs/bass are very setup/system/room dependent, and you can get tremendous results with many high quality pieces out there, done properly - but you can also, even easier, get poor results when things are don't right, even with the most expensive subs around!
I personally think potentially great subs like the ones mentioned, in the average hands, don't usually end up amounting to all that much, more often than not. Unless you know all of what you're doing, it can end up disapointing if you're not experienced in setting these things up. That said, I can take either of the above mentioned, and get some world class results in the right room and setup.--but then I know what I'm doing.
I would not discount either, bassed on hype or someone on the net's own bias however. Finding the right deal, with the right help, might be more valuable.
For me, I'd likely never buy any $10k subwoofer (wilson) or otherwise, as a single sub! Waste of money, IMO.
I got the F113 subwoofer last week,and it is AMAZING!!!!
The funny thing is, that its very good on music also.
And we all know,that its Crazy on Movies.
Well you are most welcome! This is one of those rare threads with good advice and one that did not present diametrically opposed views (as happens all too often).
Reviving this old tread as I was itching for a new sub.
I currently have the Paradigm Signature servo and a Paradigm Reference Servo 15 V.2 in the same system.
I was eyeing selling off the Servo 15 and replacing it with a new sub.
On my list is the SVS PB13-ULTRA or the Fathom f113.(I found a used one for not too much more $)
Are there any others I should also consider?
BTW the rest of the system consists of the Anthem D2, P5 and all Paradigm S8, C5 and Signature ADP3s and of course my Oppo BDP105.
I think the SVS PB13 Ultra will complement your existing Paradigm Sig Servo very well and will take it to the HT depths that is so often desired. The Fathom F113 might mate a little better musically with your Paradigm but for HT, the PB13 Ultra is very difficult to beat at it's price point.
For someone to try and tell me that one subwoofer (or any AV electronics product, for that matter) is superior to another, and to "just buy that one, cause it's better", doesn't equate! I'd first be asking myself, which product will work better, in my system, with my setup, in my room, and basically make a better fit for my application.
Equipment matching is all relative, system and setup dependent and, of course, dependent on personal preference and taste. But for a subwoofer, setup, room and acoustics, and system matching and integration are key.
For instance, I know that the old Servo 15, as a sealed unit, was superb for both movies and music, could perform well placed near the wall, and was fast, musical, and potent for home theater, without drawing attention to itself. Some other ported subwoofer that's competing would likely need to be addressed different, and may or may not be as effective in the same setup, room, or system.
So for me to say to anyone that one subwoofer is better than another, I'd have to first qualify a lot of variables before I recommended anything.
I have a SVS PB13 Ultra now and I love it for HT and Multi-channel music. Here's my modest review of the JL F-113 over on the Polk Forum.