Paradigm Personas: A First Listen


I thought starting a new thread would be more appropriate since it would allow for a more focused discussion.

I have Paradigm S8v2s and have owned them, since new, for 8 years.  I have lived with them happily and when I bought them I knew they were going to be a long term purchase.  Cables, sources etc may come and go but big speakers are harder to find, harder to move and sell (I think).  I found a local dealer (the only one in BC so far) that has the entire Persona line; except the 7F.  They had the 9H, 5F, 3F and Monitor.  I got to hear all of them.  The 9H was in a dedicated room set up for home theatre.  The others were in a 2 channel only system.  Preamp/source was a Cambridge Audio preamp with a media player built in, Wadia Class D amps.  System was nice, sounded good and not the "highest end" you would expect, but more real world.  I took along a CD of Parijat: Prayer to Love (excellent CD BTW.  Highly recommended and wonderfully recorded).  I am very familiar with the CD.  My system has its own room, Luxman Class A amps, Luxman preamp, Bryston DAC, Nordost and Wirewizard Cables.  I think my system has an edge on electronics, but I will leave that out as I think that is splitting hairs.

First speaker I heard was the 5F.  The first thing that is immediate is the midrange and treble purity, clarity, integration, smoothness and extension.  I definitely say there is no discontinuity between the mid/tweeter.  Having a Beryllium tweeter myself I know what to expect, and the 5F did not disappoint.  The sound was relaxed, clear, focused with excellent detail.  No harshness, grain, etch or sibilance at all.  Imaging was also excellent; focused, wide and deep with good height.  Note that the 5F, 3F were right beside each other and the Monitors on stands right beside the 3's.  They were in an open room not a dedicated room, so I could only suspect the speakers would sound better as the environment would get better.  In short, the tweeter/mid was superb.  The best I have heard.  I would give the edge to the Persona's over my S8's in this regard, but given the mid and tweeter are both Beryllium they are going to have identical resonances on the fact the material is the same; it will be homogenous.  The S8 is no slouch, so the differences are small, but I give the Persona the edge here.  And I like my S8's.  I have not felt wanting.

The description for the mid/tweeter is identical for each model; there was no difference, perhaps a slight difference for the Monitor but its limited lower end might of SEEMED things to be more clear/detailed.  Hard to say.  Bottom end on the 9H was robust, to be polite, but to be expected too.....4 8 inch cones internally powered...I think a subwoofer here would be redundant in all but the largest rooms to be sure.  But the snap, punch and detail were excellent.  Moving to the 5 and 3, the bottom end was not as prodigious but still extended and tuneful.  Detail was excellent but to be expected the 5 was more pronounced than the 3.  I think both (and the Monitor for sure) would benefit from a sub, but I leave that to the reader's personal taste.  There was no evidence of port noise or discontinuity of any type.  Unfortunately, I have yet to find out (if you would like to bi amp) WHERE the biamp crossover is.  I found out the hard way on my S8 it is between the tweeter/mid, not the mid/bass as you would expect.  This would allow for a Class A or tube amp on the all important mid/tweeter and a robust amp for the bottom end.  I would like Paradigm to be clear on this point as finding out the hard way for me was costly.  I let a good Bryston amp go for no reason other than the fact it was not able to work in my system as planned.  

I suppose the real question is this:  are they worth it?  Well, I thought about my own system on the drive home, and since my system's weak point is NOT the speakers, I would, for me, not buy or let my S8 go unless someone gave me a good offer.  The logistics of selling speakers that are 4 feet tall, almost 2 feet deep and 100lbs is not a small feat, and shipping (unless local pickup) will be expensive.  I bought the S8 knowing it was going to be with me for a long time, and in fact I would rather keep them since they are so good (to me).   But I would buy the Personas for sure.  The high end purity and midrange clarity, coherence and detail are so good I was floored by how good it was.  Bottom end weight and volume is a personal preference, and adding subs obviates the comparison there, as either the 5 or 3 would be a killer system with subs.  I had extended time with the 5 and 3 and the jump in price between the two makes sense if the sub is out of the equation.  I think the added bottom end on the 5 could easily be made up with the 3 and a good sub, think JL Audio f112, e110 or e112.  An outboard crossover as part of the deal would be stating the obvious (in fact the JL Audio CR 1 crossover is what I am eyeing next.  With this, should some time down the road come I decide to jump up to the Personas finances permitting, it would greatly affect what Persona I get).  But by then I might have a different room so whom knows, but so long as the flexibility is there you have options.  I was hoping to see the 7F but the 9H is almost identical in  size.  Considering the competition they are up against I think they hold very well.  Making a matching Beryllium tweeter and mid is no small feat, and costly to boot.  Moreover, Paradigm's size and economy of scale is such that you get more than you pay for, this has been a Paradigm hallmark.  A smaller company could bring out a matched Beryllium set, perhaps, but at what cost?  I can see why the Persona line costs more, but after seeing them and listening to them, I don't feel at all that they are overpriced or outrageous.  Obviously the sound is what counts, but there is more to it than that.  I honestly think you get what you pay for; the real trick is finding the goods out there that go a step further and really offer the "diamond in the rough".  For me personally, the cost and logistics of selling my current speakers is not something I can do right now.  But if I could, I would have no issue owning a Performa.  The 7F is what I have sought my sights on, but the 5F is no slouch.  As a smaller speaker, there is little to fault the 3F and add in a sub (or two)....watch out.  Even without subs, the 5 and the 3 are more than pleasant, and in a enclosed room where there is room reinforcement......it would be interesting to know.

Pictures do not do the speakers justice.  They are gorgeous.  Fit and finish is superb, certainly better than my S8. The lenses are really trick.  I don't think there should be any trouble with the WAF but their styling is a bit modern, some might not like it.  The room presence is not nearly as strong as you would think; the S8 being so deep and narrow hides in the room well.  The Personas do as well, but are so gorgeous you don't want to hide them.  You would think the 9H to be imposing, but that is not the case, especially if you are use to bigger speakers anyway.

I am very impressed and happy that the "step up" Paradigm has made has been done well, with thought, focus and obvious results.  As to relative to what is out there, especially to what I have heard, they compete favourable with much more expensive speakers, and I have heard Focals (which is another brand I like because, surprise, they have a Beryllium tweeter).  I just think the matching tweeter/mid, especially at the price, is hard to beat.  And I am sure that the better the gear upstream would only help the sound.  The 5Fs or 3Fs in my system with the gear I have would be very interesting.

Who knows what the year brings.  I give the Personas the highest recommendation, and this is from someone whom has owned a good pair for years without complaint.  If anyone is thinking of trying out a pair I urge you to do so if possible before making any decisions.  Paradigm, with the Personas, has truly evolved into a high end brand, and deserves consideration as such.  

 
128x128blackfly

Showing 4 responses by blackfly

I think in all honesty, with time and reviews, that the "big boys" will be worried.  Magico, Wilson, Rockport might be able to source a Beryllium tweeter, but the matched mid/tweeter that Paradigm has done is superb, sonically and especially the cost.  You will most likely hear the defence of the big boys being cabinet construction, material and cost, and that is true, but there was no cabinet resonance or vibration (that I could ascertain) in any model.  And cost.  Even the 7F compared to Magico is a significant cost saving that could be put elsewhere; subs, electronics, cables...you name it.  And I am sure at this level the room is a given; my own sound room is near ideal for a smaller room, albeit a bit damped perhaps, but so be it.  But think of how important the room is to begin with on ANY speaker.  The 5, 3 and Monitor were in an open room with no room gain to help them.  I could only imagine in a room with some reinforcement.

Any speaker or electronics manufacturer can make the best gear by throwing money at the design, cost no object makes that easy.  Making a price point or "keeping it real" shows REAL engineering, and yes, Wilson's latest offering is $685K US.  If it could of been done at $100K, say, now that would of been something.  And here I give Magico a bit of a nod in that the "trickle down effect" is realized....although expensive still their line has aluminium cabinets, good drivers.......but to me, Paradigm has done something only a few have done in the pure Beryllium mid/tweeter combo and after hearing it, there is no going back.  We could argue about cabinet resonances and material but trust me, Paradigm is aware of this and taken it into consideration.  I heard nothing and my S8s have no cabinet buzz, noise or port noise that I have heard.  You know things only get better.

I am very eager to see the general consensus on the web in the reviews. It will be coming, slowly, but my lowly 2 hour listening session was enough to convince me that they are the real deal and the "big boys" should be concerned.  And the scale of manufacture (and the fact Paradigm makes all of its drivers) means Paradigm can do things other companies cannot.  

Bravo Paradigm.  A real step up.  I suspect the official reviews will be glowing, as they should be.
Well, I will say that you could keep your nose "up" and EXPECT something to cost more to sound better.  This part of human engineering is fact and well shown by the marketing department of almost all major goods we have.  

Magico, Kharma, Wilson, Rockport et al  CANNOT compete with the likes of Paradigm on R+D dollars or manufacture of scale.  Most forget that the bread and butter of Paradigm is the entry level/mid level which they excel at.  This affords profit that they can use to further technology, R+D and execution.  Higher end companies cannot afford stinkers.  Paradigm has the time, resources and facilities to make what they want, and making Beryllium is not only costly but toxic; something any smaller company CANNOT undertake.  

I suspect that if a smaller company were to release the Persona line it would be factors higher in cost.  I get it that Paradigm is going to make a profit on what it does; whom doesn't?  But are you going to fault Paradigm if the Persona's are a profit?  Maybe they have good management.  Maybe they have a better fiscal budget.  Maybe they have a better understanding of the P+L and know where to risk it and where to stay safe.  I don't really care how a company goes about its business; only that it does and produces a product at a price that is competitive and realistic.  Sadly, in the high end, simply going higher is the result rather than adding something real or a benefit.  It is upgraded, therefore must cost more.  Really?  Talk about the easy way out.

Yes, for Pardigm, the Personas are costly, but they know the game they are in and know of the cost of gear in front of them.  The biggest thing against Paradigm is stigma.  And clearly, with Persona, they are trying hard, and in my mind (and ears) succeeding.  But there is a huge cult in the high and highest end that cost is the only real currency, not performance.  So be it.  Look at resale.  Audio is no posterboy on this.

I bet if it was behind a blind screen with know knowledge of brand and type most would be blown away.  I was and had preconceived bias.   And I think for the previous statements that the Signature line was (or is) not as good as it is are unfounded.  My system is well driven and IF the Siggys I have were that bad I would dump them fast for Personas.  But logistically, as I have said, that is not so easy, the Siggys are really good, and the cost outlay (for me) is not something I can do realistically.  Does that mean that I would not buy them in a heartbeat?  No.  I would.  There is no getting past the hi/midrange liquidity, integration, harmony and smoothness.  I have not heard such since.  Despite cost.  Get past he biases.  This is the real deal.
smittyjs:  it will be a while to find a pair to get the depreciation.  I get it in audio there is always someone whom likes to rotate gear as often as handbags or shoes, but seeing how the Personas are new it will be a bit.  And as for someone selling $70K speakers for Personas.....why not?  You are getting an as good, maybe a better speaker and still have money left over (although it is obvious on the buy/sell link here depreciation is about 50%, despite condition....).  But I would like to think that this is the start of a trend where the more "realistically priced" companies start offering high end offerings at more attainable prices and show up the "war of cost escalation" that seems to go unabated in audio.  Cost no object is easy; trying to hit a cost that has a larger market is not.  That is where engineering, planning and research really show.  Hell, any company could make a speaker if it cost $250K.  Doing the same at $25K is another matter entirely.

For me, there is no "snobbery".  If it sounds good, it sounds good.  Yes, some expensive products do sound good.  I recently heard the Focal Stella Utopias in a dedicated room properly driven (I forget the gear but think $100k).   Melody Gardot "My One And Only Thrill".  Sounded wonderful (although I was actually auditioning my current subs, the JL Audio F113s).  Looking back, the Personas are better in every way.  Highs and mids are more uniform, cohesive, unified and coherent, to say nothing of resolved, refined and airy.  And the size difference...and cost.....I am not going to argue the bottom end, since the difference is easily made up with a sub or two properly integrated (which is becoming all more common).  Bottom line:  don't think cost is the only requisite for high end sound.  I am extremely impressed by Paradigm and what it has done, and it deserves all the accolades  it will get and deserves them and then some.  

And whom wouldn't want to save a few dollars to spend elsewhere in the system...........
I think with the 9H in particular, a tube amp would be ideal, as the bottom end, the tube amps weak spot, is obviated by the powered section.  I use Class A amps on my S8s and they are phenomenal.  I hope one of the major publications does a full review at some point, especially considering how many speakers they review and can compare to.