Ortofon Red/Pro-ject Carbon Debut combination; rolled off hi-frequencies. Solutions?


Hi there.

I just bought a Project Carbon Debut SB with a factory equipped Ortofon Red. After 30 hours break-in the mids are fine (smooth, rich and full), bass is a little fat but tolerable but the highs, as I expected were rolled off; but more than I expected and not acceptable to me. Obviously, there will be compromises in a "bargain" turntable but mechanically and sonically I think it's good basic platform to start with.
 
The TT is playing back through the inboard phono stage of my Musical Fidelity A3.2 integrated. I've swapped interconnects, starting with Audioquest Diamondback (nice mids, darker top end) and Wireworld Equinox 6's (brighter top but not much inprovement in air, and surprisingly a bit grainy and obscure in the mids).

I'm thinking my 1st step is upgrading the cartridge to either the Ortofon Blue, Shelter 201 of the new Audio Technica VM540ML; the replacement for the old AT400ML which was a bit too bright but otherwise highly musical and faithful in reproduction (I had one in my Music Hall MMF5.1) but there aren't any reviews of it to be found on the web or in hi-fi mags.

I am on a budget and before I start throwing hundreds of bucks around and burning months of experimentation on swapping out cables, outboard phono stages and cartridges I thought I'd throw this subject open to discussion to my brothers of the cloth who have the same high fidelity point of view as I.

Any recommendations or opinions are welcome. 


morbius2130aol

Showing 3 responses by morbius2130aol

Thanks for your valued input, guys. Let me further detail my system setup...

My equipment is installed in a Soundesign metal rack on spikes. The turntable sits on the top of the rack on a 25 lb. slab of granite. I don't use a mat, the records are played resting directly on the acrylic platter. The stock Pro-ject feet are used. The both the Audioquest and Wireworld IC's used are 1meter in length. The capacitance of the inboard phono stage of the A3.2 is non adjustable and fixed at 47k Ohms.

Based on the feedback so far I'm in agreement with most everthing I've heard from the group. My original thought was to upgrade the cartridge (or stylus) first then consider an outboard phono stage with adjustable capacitance. First, I'll be recalibrating the alignment of the cartridge this afternoon, just to be sure.

Anymore input is appreciated. Thanks again.
morbius
Thanks again for your valued input, guys. Just an update on my progress after re-calibration of the Pro-ject Carbon SB/Ortofon Red combo...

The VTA was rechecked and is as close to perfect as possible, azmuth is also 5x5, as is the stylus angle. The table balance was checked with a precision Starrett bubble level throughout the tonearm arc and it couldn't be better. The only tweak required was a very minor (less than a 10%) correction to the cartridge alignment using a Baerwald 66/120.89 scale.

I'm incomplete agreement with everyone that says that once the table is properly set up the cartridge is the core of the vinyl playback system. I've run both Supex and Dynavector MC's in my old AR EB101/SME with astonishing results, Signet, Ortofon and Talisman in my old Systemdek, and A/T and Sumiko BPS in my Music Hall MMF 5.1 and been quite satisfied with them. 

I also agree that most of  the new cartridges are not as musical as the older ones. However, time and engineering have raised the peformance of lower price turntables to an acceptable level and a good foundation for hot-rodding. My immediate project is to experiment with vibration isolation with cones and pods, althought the 25 lbs of granite the T'table is resting on isn't likely to yield to much.  My next step is to swap out the cartridge with a conservatively priced (less than $350) unit, based on what I hear (and don't hear) then fine tune the system with a complimentary cable upgrade and probably an outboard phono preamp down the road. My  life's priorities are changing. Being retired and more fiscally practical than in days of yore, dropping 3 Grand on a turntable isn't as enticing as it once was. Besides, my grandaughter is about to enter college and I've got my eye on a new set of Titleist irons and spring is just around the corner.

As to the performance of my Musical Fidelity A3.2...It's fair to say it's more laid back and tubelike in a Conrad Johnson sort of way but I like to listen to music in the manner of Deutche Grammophons' 15th row-center stage playback, but the amp's got buckets of power and could produce blinding sound pressure through my old KEF 104/2s and Mirage sub system. When I would crank up a live rock and roll concert the neighbors ran to their air raid shelters because their sidewalks started buckling. As we used to say back in Detroit..."There is no such thing as too much horsepower..".
FOLLOW UP TO MY ORIGINAL POST of 1/26/18...

Hi there again.

After careful consideration of all your valued inputs I checked all the mechanical aspects of 'table and tonearm setup and bought a very slightly used Sumiko Blue Point #2, install and calibrated it, spun a couple dozen vinyl sides and noticed the following.

The Sumiko is dramatically smoother throughout the frequencies. The bloated bass of the Ortofon was gone, replaced by a much better defined and articulate bottom end that is rich in tone and timber. The hi-freq's opened up, and the missing air and spacial information became much more obvious. The midrange and voices are no longer highly prominent and are much more consistent with the entire musical spectrum. The musical presentation is better defined and voices are more natural and far less forceful. The image is deeper and instrument location is better defined.

While the Sumiko is not quite as dynamic and dramatic as the Ortofon but it is superior in it's obvious neutrality and overall fidelity. If I had to use a word to sum up, it is "graceful" by comparison.

For a hundred bucks, the Ortofon Red is a great value in it's price range. However, the Blue Point simply blows it away it with it's musicality. It's like comparing a pick-up truck to a Porsche.

Thanks again for all your input.
morbius