Ortofon bronze PNP ALERT!!!!!


I purchased a PNP Bronze from a member who said it was less than two months old.
Its the one with the integrated headshell for SME mount or can be used without headshell on a Rega type arm.
Well,I undid the screws and was pulling off the tags,<I've been in Analog since mid seventies and own about 20
cartridges>Anyway the pins coming out of the cartridge body pulled right out.
  This has never happened even on my cheapest junk cartridge.
The seller had a reciept from Turntable Needles and Ortofon said they are not authorized dealer.
They also said it was clearly a manufacturing issue and should have not happened.

Meanwhile,they say I should go after seller for a refund.Well its not the sellers fault and I won't do that.
Neither is it mine,I've removed headshell wires hundreds of times and know what I'm doing.

What amazes me is how PETTY and Crappy a well known respected long time company can be.
ITs amazing that a company like Bryston can offer warranty work to the tenth owner in the 19th year and these
people won't even stand behind a obvious Quality Control DEFECT
Just a word of caution to Ortofon customers,think twice.
Steve

soundsgood05
This time buy a Bryston cartridge.
I wasn't aware you could even remove the cartridge body from the PNP model?  I thought it was always designed to be a one piece unit.

I looked through the owner's manual and they don't mention anything about removing it for use on a standard headshell.

I currently own a 2M Red and a 2M Black and had a 2M Bronze. They are made very nicely. Well built and solid.  Never a problem with any of mine.
Let me make sure I understand.  Are you saying you bought an Orotofon cartridge second-hand from an Audiogon member and that the contact pins (one or all 4?) pulled out of the cartridge body when you tried to re-mount the cartridge?  If this is basically the case, why would you ever expect Ortofon to be responsible?  I must be missing something. Anyway, as you know, Ortofon have been in existence for many decades and like others say above, their cartridges are always well made, among the best in terms of quality of construction.  I could see Ortofon agreeing to fix the problem for a fee, but I don't see why they should fix it for free; if they won't touch it, probably Sound Smith will help. Where you may have a beef is Orto not wanting to service it at any cost, if that's the case.  I understand that they have taken such a stance with some other products, e.g., A90 re-tips.
I bought a brand new Windfield which was internally wired wrong...Ortofon quickly sent me a new one that is perfect.  You can't expect that kind of support in your case since you didn't buy it from an Ortofon dealer.  I would try to get my money back with a returned cartridge.
Let me say this,has anyone ever had all four pins come out of a cartridge body.No me either.They clearly were not glued in and pulled out easily with no effort.And second,
the head headshell is just a standard cartridge on a carbon fiber headshell.
If it was meant to be permanent,then why have screws on top which imply its removable.
Why not just epoxy it and leave out screws?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
To all the people rushing to Ortofons defense,i too like thier product.Unfotunately my seller bought it online at Turntableneedles .com which Ortofon says is not authorized dealer.
Ortofon could have offered a cartridge body at least at a discount.
However they blew me off and told me to go after seller.
Its not gonna make or break me and the money is a night out for me its
the disregard.And to you owners of thier product they offer no support unlike its a factory authorized dealer who charges 331/3 percent more.
Let me rephrase this,I paid 320.00 used,the seller had a reciept showing it was about 60 days old,he upgraded to a Black.How am I at fault?
Maybe I'm missing something?If it were my company,i would say
show us reciept and we can work something out,
the headshell and expensive stylus are fine,we can sell a cartridge body to you for say 100.00,even that would have been acceptable.
Not for them to admit in an email that is rare for that to happen,but clearly a defect.I don't think that website intentionally buys defective factory seconds
I am missing something I guess? The headshell in the pictures of the PNP model is NOT a typical headshell. They are molded around and contoured for the 2M body. They are not flat and open in the back like most replacement headshells. This tells me that they are indeed made as a one piece unit.

I do agree with you that they could just epoxy the body in and I’m sure the (2) screws on top are for looks in addition to mounting.

Since you still have a pretty new stylus assembly, you could always sell that to recoup a little of your money. They retail for around $290, so you could get a little back.

I also agree with you that someone could offer to sell you just the cartridge body, since the stylus makes up most of the money.

Have you tried BOTH Ortofon USA and Ortofon DK?
Yes you are missing something,I do manufacturing as a living.I started as a Tool and die maker and worked my way to manufacturing engineer.
the headshell is molded to the contour of the cartridge.But take the cartridge out with the screws and its a normal Bronze cart.My only gripe gripe was with Ortofon admitting a defect in a almost new cart then telling me to pound sand cause Turntableneedles.com is not authorized dealer
So i'll just put it aside and wait for someone to sell a body,because they don't want to spend the rediculous amount of money Ortofon wants for a stylus..
Not fair to Ortofon, given what you have said. You acquire the cartridge third-hand (maybe even fourth hand), presumably to avoid paying retail at a price level where you would enjoy generous warranty protection.  It is a way of taking a risk to save money. This time it did not work, and you lost some money by failing to support the manufacturer directly. Welcome to the real world. Buy the (cheap) ticket and take the (cheap) ride.
 
goheelz
121 posts
01-31-2016 3:20pm
Not fair to Ortofon, given what you have said. You acquire the cartridge third-hand (maybe even fourth hand), presumably to avoid paying retail at a price level where you would enjoy generous warranty protection. It is a way of taking a risk to save money. This time it did not work, and you lost some money by failing to support the manufacturer directly. Welcome to the real world. Buy the (cheap) ticket and take the (cheap) ride.
THIS!!!

I'm retired from a leadership role in a manufacturing company. It's a contrast between have to and want to- the letter of the law and the spirit. If we discovered we improperly manufactured a product, which was not often thankfully, we made an attempt to make things right. 

Two main reasons. We wanted people that bought our product to be happy, (regardless of the price point) and we felt it was a good investment in our reputation and brand.

Vendors, retailers, and so forth gain points with me and some of you for going over and above, it's a wonderful thing. Not bootlicking over and above- but fair and accommodating to us and them.

I'm not an expert on anything per say. Just giving an opinion. Fwiw, our company has continued to grow and prosper over the past 27 years.

i am sorry you ended up with a bad deal for whatever reason. Hopefully the audio gods will smile down on you next go around!

Best,
Gary
Hey Halcro,
you obviously didn't read this,
I acquired from original purchaser,it was 2 months old and he had a dated reciept attesting to that,
So read blog first before making comments like third,or fouth hand
turntableneedles.com offered to replace in spite of Ortofons
disregard

Hey Soundsgood,

You bought a second hand cartridge originally purchased from an unauthorized dealer - that's grey goods, second hand grey goods.

The responsible party is the person you bought it from not the manufacturer. You're lucky Turntable Needles agreed to exchange it.

Sincerely,.

You bought a second hand cartridge originally purchased from an unauthorized dealer - that's grey goods, second hand grey goods.

The responsible party is the person you bought it from not the manufacturer. You're lucky Turntable Needles agreed to exchange it.

I agree with fleib.  Your problem is with the cat you bought the cartridge from.  Not the dealer, who was unauthorized and especially not with Ortofon.

Good to hear Turntable Needles is stepping up to the plate though.  Kudos to them as they don't have to.



I own a Transfiguration Proteus sounds wonderful with great service.Using there cartridges for over 20 years with no problems.I would NEVER buy a used cartridge.
It amazes me  how some people made it through high school much less college.Third or fourth,
well if you figure first hand was the manufacturer,second the distributor,third the retailer,then fourth the purchaser,then yes I'm the first hand person.
Maybe I should never buy anything online secondhand even if its next to new.
How many times has anyone of us bought something from Amazon and really didn't know the selling party was not an authorized dealer.
I can only surmise my entire system is grey goods,my Treshold amp purchased from an unlicensed owner,my BAT preamp again purchased from the same.
People,your missing the point.The item had headshell pins practically fall out and the manu. tells me to pound sand.
I'm gonna drop a few names here,
i bought Bob Grahams original tonearm he designed with McIntosh,the Excalibur.He was very helpful and courteous and truly a gentlemen.although others have said contrary.Then theres Mike Elliot of Counterpoint who responds to questions and issues,then theres Victor of BAT,who replies with a email almost as soon as he gets it.Or Klaus of Odyssey who will talk
your ear off.People like this I hold in high regard,they get IT!!!They CARE!!!,
not the corporate NONENTITIES,that thier idea of customer service is
dispatching you with HASTE
This unfortunately happened to me too with a Ortofon 2M Black a while back, one of the connection pins pulled right out of the body when removing the leads.  I agree that this should not happen - the pins clearly should have some retaining feature machined/pressed into them before they are cast or pushed into the plastic body.  When installing or removing the 2M series I'm extra super careful.

Good Listening


Peter
To the OP, you knowingly purchased a used product originally sourced from a non-authorized dealer and then tried to modify/dismantle the product in a way the manufacturer did not intend.  Yet, you still want someone else to cover for you.  Take some responsibility for your actions.
Soundsgood05,

Good for you!  I'm glad they worked with you on your cartridge. It's good business on their part. 

I buy most audio components used and have had very, very few issues. When I purchased new I haven't considered the 'authorized dealer' issue, but I will going forward!

Gary


Thanks Gary,
i was beginning to feel like I'm stupid for buying an item secondhand.
And apparently someone else had this happen the pin pulling right out of a
2M Black no less.i guess the lady in Denmark that puts the crazy glue on the pins was having a bad day.To the onhwy61 guy with thousands of posts,GET A LIFE!
PS all my stereo stuff is GREY GOODS,
haven't bought anything new since the eighties.
 
BTW ,what happened to SQUARETRADE on the bay.It was the service you bought to protect from stuff /electronics from failing within 6 months or something like that.I once bought a Aragon 8008B,used no warranty and a month later it failed.Squaretrade assisted me with getting that repaired.
i guess I dodged responsibility there also by invoking my rights.
The reality as I told Ortofon is this is a very small world since the internet.
25 years ago you could have gotten away with QC issues going unreported
and someone in Chile not knowing it happened to someone else in another part of the world.I am not trying to damage anyones reputation because I believe Ortofon makes good reasonably priced<albeit high>high performance products.Nowadays its harder for this and that going unnoticed.the internet for now at least gives the powerless some hope.
I totally agree, that's why so many businesses are struggling. The internet gives us more options and smart business owners are putting themselves in customers' shoes. 

A good example is Tennis Warehouse in CA. They are willing to to give me a higher level of customer service than my local sporting goods store and started doing it 15 years ago. You could demo 4 racquets for around 10 days with a 2 day return label shipped in the box- just drop the box off at a UPS pickup point. I think it cost me around $20 but it's been s few years- very smart guys.

So many more businesses like this now. The business world is rapidly changing for the better in my opinion.

Gary

Touche',i got someone to agree with me,
Companies used to spend incredible amounts on advertising.Now its about
public relations from a grassroots perspective.I never once had
Nelson Pass tell me my concerns were stupid and did I buy it from an authorized dealer.Theres a new paradigm business mode.
Look at car insurance,spend billions on adverts,yet they are priced the same.
Shut up and put the money to better use.

Heres the kicker,a fellow bought a FFYX TT from China,the platter wobbled like crazy,he posted on YOUTUBE so everyone that googles FFYX is directed to that,what do you think that does for sales?i told Ortofon I would be doing the same,showing OOPS the pins came OUT!,this must be a new design.Thats what i thought when it happened.For now,I'm done.I'll return to my lowly Shure V15VMR,probably run circles around the Ortofon anyway.
Got side 1 and 2 of "This is the Moody Blues"cranked up,puts things in perspective.This has been fun,well worth the hundred or so dollars I might be out.
Soundsgood05, You are not an authorized Ortofon dealer and have no business disassembling a second hand cart and then holding Ortofon (or anyone) responsible for anything IMHO. I have owned dozens of Ortofons and you discredit our hobby to attack a company with such a long history and in such high standing, with such a frivolous case in point. I too am a long time Hi-Fi analogue guy and industrial designer and from what I can make out of your claim, I'm sorry, it is baseless. My advise? Get over it and move on. This should not be made as a public dispute. 

As for your comment on Nelson Pass, if I could understand it I would comment. Sufficed to say, Nelson is but another fountainhead of creation and a most charitable man with his knowledge, and a kind hearted soul in my experience. Likely if he felt something was "stupid" it must have worked long and hard to get under his skin. I would except his judgement on face value. 

If I may comment please, with all due respect.

-The OP wrote that Ortofon admitted to the manufacturing error. 

-Also, he was complimenting Nelson Pass, not insulting him.

If Ortofon was as concerned as some members on here for their high standing- they should have helped this cat out of a jam.

Regards,
gary


This was a response i got,the issue is a known issue.
To all the Ortofon cheerleaders,go to@%@%@%


Hi Steve

Yours went out before we knew the issue.
We've had it on 2 bronze and one black.
as soon as we get the cartridge body back with
receipt and confirm its condition, we will send out a
new body. We've seen it before! That's why we've no
hesitation regarding the problem and solution needed.
Even though you're not the original purchaser. If your
story was that the needle was bent in half that would be hard
pressed to be covered.



Yes Ortofon is not wise enough to "authorize", one
of the largest needle suppliers. In time they will learn
as their sales plummet. Their response to you should be
well it wasn't purchased from an authorized dealer but
yes we are aware we made a major defect on some of
our very overpriced high end cartridges so we will take
care of you "just this one time".

They are factory "firsts" (or so Orto thought when they
left the factory). I am not aware that Orto or any other
cartridge brand lets "seconds" out the door
Sorry, I rule for the defendant (Ortofon )....cart was bought used from a person who purchased from an unauthorized seller...the mfg. has no responsibility here.

If you buy grey market...you assume the risk in doing so. What part of "you don’t get something for nothing" confuses people?

With that being said...I wonder how some of these unauthorized sellers get their stock... I have the feeling that, in some cases, the manufacturers have no qualms about taking money from unauthorized sellers...while looking down upon them.

(For the record: I do understand that some GM sales are out of control of the mfg. Eg. Out of country purchased, imported on side... but don’t believe mfgs go out of their way to stop it...sales without warranty obligation works very well in their favor)
To all the Ortofon cheerleaders,go to@%@%@%

You seem to not want to give up slamming Ortofon.  Or slamming anyone on this thread that disagrees with you.

Well even on the internet and much to your dismay, I doubt that two disgruntled individuals will cause their sales to plummet.  I for one, love my Rondo and when the time comes to replace, I no doubt will go even higher up the ladder to a Cadenza. 

Again, I am happy for you that Turntable Needles stepped up to the plate to make it right.  So isn't time you take the high road too and stop insulting the majority of participants on this thread?  And yes, I did get through college and on the Deans List too. 

If defending someone from an absolutely merit less claim makes you a cheerleader. ..then I guess I'm happy to be a cheerleader.

What's at work here is a twisted sense of ego and entitlement. 

Paraneer, 

FWIW, I'm by no means "disgruntled" with Ortofon, they remain one of my favorite cartridge choices, I recommend and sell them frequently.  That I had one mishap with a cartridge, where I do think that the specific design of the connection pin could have been better executed does not change my opinion of the company, they are excellent to deal with and make a terrific product.

I too think its unfortunate that some hothead bloviates about this to the degree that the he does. Apparently he got a replacement, why not be happy with that and let the thing go.

Good Listening


Peter


I guess I'm one of the two referred to above. 

My purchases aren't material to Ortofon- but I'd buy an Ortofon product again. Sounds like they just had a couple of issues with the pins, etc. 

I wouldn't be surprised if they don't make it right with their unauthorized distributor.

What caught my attention in the thread is how quickly this guy was called cheap, etc. He had a product break and was excited. Most of us have been there, or at least I have. I'm generally a loyal customer that seeks good win/win deals, and very, very rarely have any problems.

My intention was not to insult anyone- my apologies if I did.

On a brighter note, Weather Report put out some great music! Listening to 'The Legendary Live Tapes', sweet...

gary



We need cartridge makers offering a transferrable warranty on grey market goods.  Sign me up.  Goodbye Ortofon!  ; )     
Doesn't everyone assume, when they purchase grey market or used, that the manufacturers warranty is void?  Yes.  You go in with your eyes open.  Part of paying full price is for the warranty protection.  Don't pay, don't get, save money, take chance.  Hard pill to swallow when the gamble goes bad though.  Own the situation you created and move on.

It's always somebody else's fault, especially if they appear to be a profit based corporate organization. And there's always going to be someone looking for something, for nothing. Ever wonder why these companies have a tough go of it. You don't care to support the cost of doing good business and yet you whine about not getting good service. Does this make any sense at all?!
On this I agree with Mr. Sayles!  Grey market goods are cheaper for a reason. 
Ha, ha. I so enjoy it when we can agree Dave. 

Happy Listening!

Post removed 
To everyone PHQ

Had to look that one up.






I think we should all take a minute to realize this manufacturer  has an obligation.  A fellow willing to purchase a product second hand that "hasn't purchased an item new since the eighties" but has inside manufacturing knowledge is imperative to their continued success.  The shareholders won't be happy.

If it was bought it from an authorized dealer, you would have no problem at all.  Like almost all manufacturers, Ortofon warns of this issue:

"Where can you buy Ortofon products? Ortofon Authorised Partners and Dealers can help you discover the Ortofon product that is right for you. Our Authorized Partners and Dealers have comprehensive knowledge and experience in use of Ortofon products and are able to deliver high standard customer service in accordance with Ortofon's Quality Policy"

"Make sure you purchase a genuine product and always buy from Ortofon Authorized Partners and Dealers."


I am obviously a dealer, and Louis is one of the best and most knowledgeable guys in audio.  Ortofon stands behind their products so long as the original buyer bought from a dealer.


Chris

East End Hi-Fi

This may come as a shock to you guys, but many manufacturers will stand behind a product with a known manufacturing defect- regardless of the paper trail. I know, they are totally poor, inexperienced business people, but it happens. You don't even have to be a big spender or a person of influence, they just feel like it's the right thing to do. These knuckleheads many times run great businesses and are written about as examples of making customers raving fans. 

Now I'll let you get back to a attacking the original poster - maybe take his birthday away? 
I am making an assumption that the manufacturing errors are very minimal. If they are not, of course the strategy would be foolish.
Post removed 
Just all,just have the same pin out problem of my new silver 2m cartridge.Bought New Project RPM 3 pre mounted with the 2m silver from authorised dealer,so do the warranty applies to cartridge too?
No excessive force was used when pulling out the leads.
pls help ..

What the heck is a 2M Silver?  I have never heard of such a beast in the Ortofon stable.

In any case, if the cartridge was pre-mounted by the factory then it's probably covered under the turntable warranty.  If it was pre-mounted for you by the dealer or seller then I would contact them.

If you purchased the cartridge from an authorized Ortofon dealer or partner than Ortofon will make it good under warranty.
http://www.ortofon.com/stylus-2m-silver-p-396

http://project-audio.com/main.php?prod=2msilver&cat=cartridges&lang=en

http://www.monoandstereo.com/2013/12/ortofon-2m-silver.html