Orosonic/Monster Cable Reflex Record Clamp


So when I bought my Brinkmann Bardo it came with an HRS record weight. I used it, seemed to be decent enough. Now I have never been a fan of record weights, I don't see the process they work through as being very efficient. 

On my other tables I use a Sota Reflex clamp, and the other one the Sota 1-Clamp. I like both well enough, and the reflex clamp to me is an excellent product. 

Now in my box of stuff, I did get a Monster Cable Reflex style clamp, branded as a Monster Cable one, which is the same as the Orosonic. It does a nice job pulling down onto the spindle when the center cylinder is released. 

Anyone ever heard much about these clamps and have an opinion? From what I hear there are not significant differences. To be honest, I am not even sure if they are necessary, but I feel better with on there as the Reflex clamp does a good job coupling the record and platter. Not as good as the Reflex clamp and vacuum platter of my Cosmos, but pretty good for a single device. 

Anyone use any of these series Orosonic or rebranded Monster Cable clamps? I think they may have been sold under other brand names also. 
neonknight
I do have the the orsonic monster is good, light weight 250 gr.  I like better the Basis Reflex clamp that is 300 gr. the clamp mechanism feels better and sounds better in my Technics sp10mk2,  I also have the Thorens  450 gr. record weight which i hardly use. My favorite is the basis.
Orsonic is a nice clamp for turntables with low torque and lightweight platter (when you can’t use heavy record weight). Here is my NOS sample, i tried it on my turntables, it was OK, but i prefer traditional record weight, they are normally heavier (400-1000g) and much more effective.

Micro Seiki ST-10 is better.

American manufacturers often ordered cartridges and accessories from Japan, in fact Orsonic made the clamp for Monster Cable and Nakatsuka-San made Monster Cable LOMC cartridges for American market.

Micro Seiki also made stuff for others, this is a very interesting Disc Stabilizer they made for Audio Union, here is my sample.

However, Micro Seiki disc satabilizers are very heavy (about 1kg).

I love the rare Noritake Ceramic stabilizers, they are about 350g and very very nice. This is what i use most of the time on all my turntables nowadays.

I remember my first record weight, it was very cheap and nice one (made in Germany), it was about 40 euro or so.

Finally i managed to find a NOS Micro Seiki ST-20 which is extremely rare gunmetal stabilizer, it work like a clamp because two parts screwed together with chuck-lock around the spindle. This one is not as heavy as the ST-10, the ST-20 is 750g. I love it. Probably my best find so far!

I have always found the issue with record clamps to be is that they cannot apply pressure across the record evenly. They clamp the inside of the record just fine, but do very little for coupling the edges. Record weights have the same problem, and just accomplish their job by brute force. And I don’t see them being good for a turntable bearing.

That is why I prefer the vacuum option on the SOTA as it applies the coupling pressure evenly across the record. Even this system requires a Reflex clamp to work properly and maintain a good seal. But it does work well, and does not harm vinyl, so I do like it.

But my other tables do not use it, so some type of clamping system is necessary. I am going to experiment a bit with the SOTA Reflex clamp and see if it gives better results than the Orsonic. I could see where the Orsonic would be useful on suspended tables such as a AR, Dual, or something ese along those lines.
I invested in a record flattener. Upon testing record clamps, in addition to them re-coupling to a mechanical bearing, they seem to take some life out of the music. I find a weight adds definition. A good mat, with or without a weight is preferrable IMO.
Dear @slaw : "  they seem to take some life out of the music.."

I read before that kind of statement but I learned with first hand experiences that's not really in that way but the other way around if you take in count that that " life " you are talking about it's higher in distoprtion levels that when you listen it using a good reflex clamp.

Neonknigth stay with reflex clamps and stay away from any non-reflex clamp ( clamps with only dead weigth that are the worst ones. ) but a one made it in wood that's out of production and that I can't remember its builder but was and is very well regarded and expensive too.

Try to find out the Basis one that @cardani posted, I own it and it's just great. I own too your Sota reflex too but my vote goes to Basis.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
@rauliruegas ,

We can therefore agree to disagree.
If you insist on a clamp, the BDR was a good one. Two versions were made---a 1-piece, and a 2. They come up for sale occasionally, going for $100-$150.
Hi @bdp24,

I own the two piece BDR clamp.
@rauliruegas ,

I have become curious to your post. You mentioned that what I may perceive as clamps taking the life out of music as distortions, ...

So when I make that statement, I hear the music becoming more free from electronics, more free from the room, more free from the speakers.....and by the way, the bass is more "fleet of foot" so to speak.

So, I ask you, if I'm hearing these sorts of positive things, how am I hearing more distortions? I view my listening at home through the lens of listening live.
Dear @slaw : The overall function of TT mats and clamps are to damp resonances that at the end is a kind of distortions.

Exist a lot of " nice distortions " that are generated by the room/system and for analog mainly inside the analog rig and there with what happens at the ridding of the stylus tip where is here what every thing starts about, through the " noises/distortions " generated for the cartridge that is trying to follow the grooves modulations and in that movements adds a lot of non-existen information in those recorded grooves but additional to that exist a feedback coming from the LP surface that adds more " trash "and then the degradation proccess continue trhtough the headshell and tonearm own resonances and feedback goes on and on.

Unfortunatelly does not exist perfect mats or perfect clamps that can make that damp in perfect way so through the time we are accustomed to listen our systems with several " nice distortions " that puts some kind of " life " additional " life " to the recorded signal and when we change the mat for a better damping one or a better damping clamp some of those " nice distortions " disappears and gone with some of that " life " but in reality what we have after the changes is not more recorded information but a cleaned-up information that through some time we take in count that what we listen is clearer music information ( notes/harmonics ) .

For years I used the AT666 disc stabilizer ( after market vacuum hold down mechanism. ) and I remember in a thread that a gentleman posted that he does not like it that device because the music " life " just disappears when in reality is not in that way.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.


@rauliruegas 

Personally I feel the same way. Vacuum clamping is the choice I prefer as you get the most even coupling of record to platter. But even that has degrees of success. When I bought an early SOTA Star Sapphire as a proof of concept to see if I wanted a SOTA table, that one had adjustable vacuum suction levels. I found if I got over 50% the music was dead, as the low level detail was lost. If I kept vacuum in the 35% range, the music had low level detail, but also even tonal texture and body. 

SOTA has gone to an automatic vacuum level in their current products where the initial vacuum pressure is applied and then reduced to maintain a desired level of pressure. From what I hear they have gotten the system dialed in properly. So on my main table this is what works the best for me, and I appreciate it. 
@rauliruegas ,

You failed to mention the greatest need for a mat... the bearing' noise through be the platter.

Once this is dealt with, a be proper mat is The best solution.
? For the OP : are you using the Bardo washer / clamp at all ? I find that effective in my system. I also have a SOTA reflex clamp and will give that a listen
I have always found the issue with record clamps to be is that they cannot apply pressure across the record evenly. They clamp the inside of the record just fine, but do very little for coupling the edges.


Right. I tried a bunch of clamps and they all had that same problem. One that worked the best was (I think) Basis and it used an o-ring around the spindle and another around the perimeter of the clamp. So after some trial and error I came up with this:
https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367  Look close, its hard to tell but the washer around the spindle is carbon fiber. There's a bit of Blue-Tack between it and the bearing. And now a more recent mod not in the photo, there's fo.Q tape with a thin film of TC on top of the washer, and a ring of fo.Q tape around the perimeter of the clamp.  

The washer is just thick enough to hold the record up slightly above the platter. The carbon fiber clamp is dished out underneath. When clamped down it presses the record flat onto the platter from the outside edges in. Its enough to hold most records perfectly flat. 

I know the records are held perfectly flat all the way across because when the clamp is released after play it takes a second, sometimes a couple seconds, and then the record pops up. So it was effectively vacuum clamped even after the clamp was removed. 


Congrats Charlie! You have reinvented the Brinkmann clamp
Thanks to this thread, it inspired me to see if this type of clamp would work on my VPI with stripped spindle thread.

I found a similar design(collete) here on Agon, that worked great.

Ordered, delivered next day. Works and looks nicer(all SS) than the upgraded one I had for years.

Saved me the hassle and more important- down time of sending back the platter to Joizey to replace the spindle!