Wow, thanks for the responses, everyone - it's like my birthday!
Just have a little time now. I'll try to respond to some posts quickly, then more thoughtfully later, but man, do I appreciate all the suggestions.
@russ/@mapman - did think about muscial fidelity. Would likely need m5i to have enough power, which so far seems to be above my price range and....maybe too bright at top end?
@djones - agreed, saw the volume problem and these are old stock now.... probably off my list.
@audio/@mapman/@jimcrane - I agree I can start the 2000s off with the 8004, but expect I will need more watts. I suspect Evan and the Ohm staff don't want to get in the habit of recommending specific amp pairings, but we discussed. Evan volunteered up front that I'd likely need a power upgrade in my space with the 2000s, and that's fair.
@melvin - it was exactly that great MWT thread that got me to consider, then search out, the MWTs. I had forgotten that in all that great conversation there were some posts about pairings. Even though many posts are pretty old now I'll check back in.
@tweak1 - thanks for the Underwood hint. Even the W4S website is offering half off remaining new stock. All - please don't clear out their stock before i decide....
@rill/ @mapman - while we're on the W4S, can you explain a little more about what you mean by 'too perfect'? I think I get it, but maybe a longer description would help me process whether that's a good thing or a not-so-good thing.
@jimcrane - you win the Link Of The Month Award for finding this obscure AudioKarma thread. Man, I thought I had found everything, and there you go.
There are some new suggestions I'll check out, and a couple more thoughtful responses are due to some of you. Again, many thanks. More later.
m
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So here's my more thoughtful follow-up, with a couple questions for the group.
I'm pretty convinced that I'm not ready to go down the separates road or consider subwoofers for now. Simplicity is better now, even though I spent time looking at the suggestions from @mapman. I also will be listening at low volume late at night - which I think might favor more watts to clarify the sound and make Class D more appealing. Will that change anyone's recommendations?
I'm listening to the MWTs with the Marantz PM8004 as I write this, and I like the sound of the Marantz - smooth, clean, can hear deep into the music, but it does not seem too bright. I can live with that sound. As @mapman also noted, I can start with the 8004 if I need to, and I have several weeks before the 2000s arrive. So I can be patient here.
With that said, @reubent, can you tell me a little more about the Rega Elicit and what is most appealing to you? Is it 'light' British (Creekish), or more full?
@rill, I also wanted to respond to your post. Before posting here I was focused on the Yamaha 1000/2000 - in my price range, what I read sounded good but I couldn't find one to listen to. I've heard that the Yamahas are more muscular than the Marantz, but still balanced. What is the difference between the Yamaha 1000/2000 and 1100/2100 series in terms of sound?
Again, thanks to all - and don't hesitate to give me suggestions or point out where I'm not making sense. I'm hoping this journey will be helpful to others trying to navigate great sound.
m
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more good suggestions/comments!
@reubent - good to see your comment about the bottom end of the Elicit. Will be on the lookout, only current listing is on eBay for $2K, a little high for me.
@misstl - had not even thought about Schiit, but willing to consider. Anyone else have an experience with the Ragnarok and a relatively inefficient speaker?
Gotta love that name if you like Norse mythology - Ragnarok - and I spent a lot of time in Norway earlier in my career, including sabbatical in Trondheim, which makes me think of Hegel. Anyone with experience with Hegel integrateds?
@rill - thanks for the longer answer. Makes sense. I wish there was a realistic way I could audition 4 or 5 of these amps to hear for myself what you are saying. It looks like you've personally moved through the chain of integrateds I've been considering, so that's especially helpful. |
@reubent - thanks for the heads-up on the Elicit. Did some on-line homework, am tracking it, wish I could do more than read about it.
@rendroidz - had not thought about McIntosh. Wonder if it's the reputed smooth style linked to power. The SS Mcintosh with ample watts tend to sell for more than my limit but will check it out.
I suppose this is the modern/pandemic version of window shopping. Enjoyable to a degree, learning a lot, not spending money yet.
But I am critically listening to my current system to see what needs improvement... and I'm noticing 2 things. More congestion than I expected with some basic roots-rock tracks by Dawes (Stories Don't End) and bass a little weak with Charlie Haden (Nocturne). That's the downside of window shopping - it makes you less content with what you already have. I should be happy with this system, it is muscial and enjoyable, and paid for....
Appreciate all of you. Keep your thoughts coming.
-m |
..and yep, the Macs are probably out of my price range..especially if I have to eventually 'fess up on the price to my better half. So far she is amused by this quest and approved of the choice of the Ohms - even actively helping choose the veneer - but if I totally blow the budget to 'overachieve' on a new integrated amp, she won't stay amused. |
@b_limo
the Belles Soloist was one I *almost* bought, was just a little late in making up my mind. I have read and heard that the Aria sounds beautiful, but I wasn't sure that there were enough watts to drive the Ohms. Any advice or experience with the Belles driving a relatively inefficient speaker in a large space?
@joekapahulu
really helpful comments, thanks! Sounds like your space is roughly similar to mine in terms of cubic feet. You were happy with the Marantz 8005 in driving the Ohms? And you think the Aria at roughly the same wattage as the Marantz will also work for you?
I love the idea of an integrated made by a person in the US who backs his product, that's one reason the Belles sounds good - just that it may not be a major upgrade from the 8004 in terms of power or current. Rogue Sphinx was on my list for the same reason. I also confess that I am really appreciating the Marantz sound as I continue to listen more critically, so your thinking about the Marantz Reference line resonates. I'm keeping my eyes open for those, too. |
@reubent - no problem, I've been out of touch, and the search is slow.
I'm still just taking inventory of what 70-100W in the Marantz 8004 can do with different signal densities. So far, my conclusions are that small ensembles (jazz quartets and string quartets) and acoustic pop are winners, orchestras and dense electricpop-rock not as much. OK- not surprising. But piano can be hit or miss, sometimes harsh- may be how it's recorded, or may be the current needed to handle dynamic piano passages.
At this point I believe I will need more power for the 2000s. There's been a lull in listings of integrateds I've been focusing on. So - I ran across an integrated I had not really noticed, the Nuprime IDA-16. In my price range, a unique approach to class D switching (pulse width modulation at high frequency), lots of power (200W), and a competent DAC (not so important to me). It's hard to find solid information about the Nuprime, and I wondered whether any of you had experience with it. Anyone?
-m |
Hi, all -
Reviving this thread with an update. After stalking HifiShark for a few weeks and continuing my self-education on affordable options, I took a left turn and bought a gently-used Peachtree Nova 220se. I thought it would be a good opportunity to learn whether Class D worked for me while driving our current Mini Walshes and waiting for the new Walsh 2000s to be shipped.
Why the Nova? I was intrigued by IcePower, wanted to see for myself whether the preamp tube would soften the rough edges of Spotify streaming or was just a pretty blue glow on the faceplate, it had a headphone amp (not available with BelCanto/Nuprime), and the price made me less worried about making a mistake.
First impressions? Positive. It's too early to dig deep, but...compared to the Marantz PM 8004...
Bass control and definition is notably better. I didn't know the MiniWalshes had this much in them - and if I had changed amps before committing to the new 2000s, I might be satisfied with the Minis. It's noticeable even on clean-source streaming, and at relatively low volume. My better half noticed this within minutes.
Complex musical passages are sorted and you can trace phrasing more clearly, also at low volumes....for example, those of you who know Steely Dan's pristine 80s recordings, the title track to Aja has some complex melodic and counterpoint threads that can get congested. The Nova did a great job parsing them while remaining musical and pleasing.
I was surprised by how the Nova handled jazz and female vocals, as well. This was one of the things I was most apprehensive about in Class D amplification. But Diana Krall and Patricia Barber vocals were smooth while background instruments were clean and clear, especially bass. Not fatiguing, just musical. After listening analytically, I was able to just relax and get into the music.
I'm listening to Spotify as I write this, and I realize that I am enjoying the stream without wincing at the compression and muffling that I had become used to. It's still not as open as even redbook, but it is better - expect that may be the Peachtree DAC. I can tell which selections on the Laurel Canyon stream were better mastered more easily than with the Marantz.
It's too soon to tell whether my reactions are simply from hearing 220/350W vs 70/100W, whether the tube makes a difference with streaming, whether Class D will be more fatiguing or less natural as I listen to more of my most familiar music, and I still can't decide whether highs are more or less open and extended. But it's a really good start.
Did any of you have this type of surprise in moving from Class A/B to Class D? Is it just the way that Ohms respond to power? Would like ot hear your stories, too! I'll post a little more after some more listening.
-m |
