Opinions wanted on cantilever alignment


I have a couple month old Lyra Kleos and being new to this level of cartridge I’m looking for opinions.
When I received it I aligned it with a microscope and a Mint LP protractor. While aligning the cantilever I noticed that it doesn’t come straight out of the hole in the body, it is on an angle off to the side.
Its been on my mind and I wanted to reach out to the forum before I called the dealer.
This cartridge was expensive and I want to get the most out of it.

https://postimg.cc/NLyS4nqZ
Cartridge straight on.

https://postimg.cc/nXRZ4CCK
Cantilever straight on
rushfan71
It's difficult to tell from the photos but this looks misaligned to me. Given that you've installed the cartridge and used it for a few months, I don't think the dealer or manufacturer owe you a refund. But it can't hurt to ask, especially if you have a good relationship with the dealer. 
what is important as far as performance is that you align the cantilever, not the body, to the arm and Mint Lp. secondly; the cantilever needs to be aligned with the magnet structure, not the body. of course, you need to be able to see the magnets to use them for alignment. you might assume they are aligned to the cantilever, but you cannot know for sure looking at that picture.

that said; you deserve to get a cartridge that has the body aligned to the cantilever. sure makes things easier and looks better. but not directly related to performance.

agree it’s probably a little late to get a replacement.

FYI; there are brands of expensive cartridges (van den hul) that rarely have the body and cantilever exactly aligned. it’s like playing the lotto. yet they can be top performers.
rushfan71, It does look off but I do not think it is. I think the front of the cartridge is off. The cantilever is coming out towards the bottom of the hole where it should be. When you play a record the cantilever displaces upward towards the center of the hole. When you set it up with your protractor make sure you are aligning it with the cantilever not the body or top of the cartridge. This is why the DB Systems protractor is so great. It is easy to line up the cantilever by staring down the cantilever from the front. As cleeds suggests you can call the dealer or Lyra directly. If it bothers you I would sent them these photos and ask what they think. Mr Carr is usually easy to get to.
Dear @rushfan71 : Yes, you need to align the cantilever not the cartridge body. I won the Kleos and it's a really good quality performer but not only Lyra but almost any other cartridge is not " perfect ", it's way dificult to find out a cartridge with dead centered cantilever and dead centered stylus in that cantilever.

The best advice for you in what you are exoperienced with is the Lyra designer J.Carr put in contact with him and see what he think about.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
I sent an email to the manufacturer.
In the mean time here is another pic.
https://postimg.cc/30J6Q3tZ
mijostyn
... When you set it up with your protractor make sure you are aligning it with the cantilever not the body or top of the cartridge ...
Exactly! And the best phono alignment gauges - such as the Mint protractor that the OP is using - allow this with considerable precision.
Looks to me like the cantilever comes out straight from the motor (ie the cantilever is straight not bent) but the whole motor assembly is mounted crooked. Nothing you could do could cause this, and so it shouldn't matter its been a month, its a manufacturing defect. 

Surprised you didn't call Day One. That never would have made it out of the box with me. In spite of everything mikelavigne saying being spot on (as usual) still I see no reason for anyone to have to put up with so much trouble the whole life of the cartridge. Because even if it is like he said and the whole motor mechanism is perfect and just out of alignment with the body, still that means in order to be aligned and play right the cartridge body is going to have to look all crooked and cockeyed.  


"Surprised you didn't call Day One. That never would have made it out of the box with me".

I hadn't had a cartridge with the cantilever exposed like this one until now. Also when deciding which cartridge I was going to buy I read up on different carts as much as I could.
One of the things I came across was Lyras' New Angle design where the coils and the iron core are out of alignment until stylus is on the record. At first I thought it might have had something to do with it but the more I look at it I think it just means up and down.
An expensive education. We have all had one.
If there is a problem there I am sure Mr Carr will make it good. I have had several Clearaudio cartridges now and I have to say they are incredibly precise as is the Ortofon Windfeld Ti. Vantilevers are perfectly aligned and SRA is right on the money. You just lose an occasional stylus. Poof, gone:)
The cantilever should not look like that. I had an exact same issue and it was corrected by Lyra after a trip to Japan. I noticed this misalignment after just a few minutes on my tonearm. My dealer was behind me 100% and the folks at Audioquest were also accommodating. The Kleos is a great cartridge, but this issue seems to occasionally be a factor.

Pretty common issue with Lyra carts. I’ve seen several pictures, mine was off too. Not sure the exact cause, but an issue none the less. Send it back.
Hi rushfan71: I haven't received any email from you, but your photos suggest that one of the asymmetrical (IOW pointed or tapered) dampers in the suspension system has rotated away from where it should be, and the cantilever is being pushed away from its proper orientation as a result.

Please contact the dealer that you purchased the Kleos from, who will arrange for the cartridge to be returned to us so that we can readjust the suspension setting and cantilever alignment.

On a separate issue, I don't necessarily agree that a cartridge should always be aligned to the cantilever instead of the cartridge body.

Frequently cantilever skew is caused by playing the cartridge with incorrect anti-skate settings for too long; in such cases adjusting to the cantilever without rethinking the anti-skate will temporarily make the issue seem to disappear, but aggravate the problem over time.

In situations like thisa wiser method is to keep the cartridge aligned to the cartridge body, but reorient the anti-skate setting slightly in the 
opposite direction from where it has been, which will over time push the cantilever back to the correct orientation. However, it is necessary to observe the cantilever orientation frequently, and revert the anti-skate setting closer to the original position once it has been verified that the cantilever skew has been corrected.

With cartridges made before the advent of NC or computer-guided machining techniques, it is conceivable that the main (rear) magnet structure does not align to the body structure.
But for more modern cartridges that employ NC or computer-guided machining techniques in their construction, the builder would have to work very hard to misalign the main (rear) magnet structure from the body structure.

On the other hand, the front magnet structure (aka front yoke, front polepiece) is usually deliberately designed so that its angle or position (relative to the coil formers) can be adjusted during the build and tuning process, and it is therefore not unusual for the front magnet structure to be slightly skewed from the rest of the cartridge structure.

hth, jonathan
jcarr, from the standpoint of cartridge wear and performance are you saying that it is best to set the anti skate so that the cantilever does not deviate laterally in either direction when lowered onto the record? What is your view of the Wallyskater?
Also, assuming that no new cartridge is exactly perfect, is it not best to align a new cartridge  by sighting it's cantilever?  This assumes that the cantilever, coils and magnetic gap are in the proper alignment. Also, many cartridge bodies are odd shapes ( I won't mention any names here) and difficult to align by.  
@rushfan71
when buying a new cartridge the manufacturer's alignment is the first thing I check before paying; if it is not aligned I do not purchase and the shopkeeper by mutual agreement sends it back to the supplier.
i would not accept that cartridge.  
Thank you everyone for contributing your thoughts to my question.

A big thank you to Mr. Johnathan Carr for responding. I have much respect for and confidence in a company like this.

I would like to note that my email to Lyra/Audioquest was answered by a gentleman named Patrick Alasdair.

The cartridge is being returned to the dealer, who has always been great in my past dealings with them, and it will be sent to Lyra for adjustment.

I don't think I'll be listening to Christmas records this year but I'm glad that something that has been in the back of mind has for sometime now is being settled especially at that price tag.

Chalking this one up to a learning experience.



@rushfan71
Of course, Mr. Alasdair has been the manager of the company for several years and personally responds to all emails requesting help or information.

Luckily, you are dealing with a company that has been around for awhile and that stands behind its products. I bought my Kleos new from a Lyra dealer, which turned out to be a very good thing as warranty service was required. 
Exactly the sort of support
i expected from Lyra. Love my Delos and it is not centered vertically until the hyper precise VTF spec is achieved. To the OP is this the new Lamda ? 
@tomic601  I don't think the Kleos has a Lambda option...yet.
@tomic601 I didn't see a lambda version of the Kleos while shopping around. 
The issue with my cantilever is that it wasn't centered horizontally.
If you look earlier in this thread Jonathan Carr explained what was going on with it.
Right you are, probably just wishful thinking on my part as I have heard the improvement Lamda makes. Hope things are resolved quickly. Back to the music !!!