Thanks for the reply Xti16. Unfortunately I cannot do a demo as this dealer does not actually stock the DM line. I'd have to order it and hope for the best. But from everything I've read about Dynaudio they are neutral speakers (a little on the warm side perhaps) and not at all harsh. I'm pretty sure they will work for me.
The Excite line looks great, the X12 just got an amazing review in Stereophile. I think they said it's the best under $2,000 speaker they know of. If I go with the Excite line I would go with the larger X16, but even still the 2/8 is more attractive to me as I am looking for a larger speaker than the typical bookshelf. I should perhaps demo the X16 though, it doesn't hurt.
One good thing about the Excite and DM series is that Dynaudio has made them easier to drive. Most amps should be sufficient. I am running an Exposure 2010s2 and I think it should be fine. |
Thanks, I think the Quads definitely excel with vocals and acoustic music. I don't think I listen loud enough that it gives my amp too much trouble. The volume knob starts at about 7 o'clock and I usually listen at 9 o'clock. The system is in a small room and it doesn't take much to get things up to room filling volume.
I guess cabinet size (volume) has a lot to do with creating big sound. Not long ago I had the Tannoy Mercury F2, which were big speakers for a bookshelf. I loved the sense of scale. I had the PMC TB2i for a couple of days, same thing there. In terms of cabinet volume (I basically just multiplied the w, h, and d), the 2/8 is by far the largest. Second is PMC, then Tannoy and the Excite X16 are almost tied, and then the 12L2 brings up the rear and it is well behind. I don't know if this is the best way to determine which speaker will give the biggest sense of scale, but I think it probably has some merit and it least gives you some idea. If anyone is curious, here are the numbers converted to percentages, with the 2/8 fixed at 100%...
Dyn 2/8: 100%
PMC TB2i: 80.9%
Tannoy F2: 71.9%
Dyn X16: 70.5%
Quad 12L2: 57.7%
This shows just how much bigger the 2/8 is, and how small the Quads are. I guess I can expect the X16 to have a similar sense of scale as the F2 did, which I think would satisfy me. Of course they are $450 more, and I'm definitely intrigued by how huge the 2/8 must sound. |
The ProAc Studio 110 is actually cheaper than the Dynaudio, and on par with the Paradigm. ProAc recently had a price drop, at least in this area. $1,300 or $1,400 I believe is the price I was quoted, while the Studio 20 is $1,400 and the X16 is US$1,600. The X16 will be even more when converted to Cdn$, the other two are already in Cdn$.
The one thing I noticed about the Studio 20 is that it's frequency response isn't tipped up in the treble region. So I'm hoping it actually doesn't sound too bright. I had a pair of Energy C-1 a while back and they weren't bad at all. Energy also measures relatively flat. The Monitor Audio RS5 on the other hand was brutally bright. I think it's all in the execution. I'm starting to think perhaps the little extra detail in a metal tweeter wouldn't be a bad thing (as long as it's not too bright). |
Thanks for your comments, everyone.
Markmay, your description of the 12L2 rings true to me. I think they are a little lacking in detail, although that may be due to the fact that the midrange isn't as forward as I've heard on other speakers. Vocals and midrange instruments tend to be a little back in the mix, while bass and treble are more forward. I think this is what is giving me the impression that the Quads don't present the sense of scale and separation around instruments that I'd like to hear. I'd like a more forward midrange as that is where most of the music lies and it's just a more exciting sound when the midrange comes through.
I also agree about music being more of a sum total, despite the slightly forwards bass and treble nothing really pops out at me most of the time. It's smooth and very nice and treble/woofer integration is top notch. A lot of people say that this is better than a speaker that impresses you with certain things, as it should be about the song as a whole. However, I like hearing a few things in each song that make me go "wow!".
Added detail with more midrange presense, nice full and warm bass, and a smooth treble are things I'm looking for and glad to hear Dynaudio gets the job done. I'm probably going to replace my Exposure gear with the Audiolab 8000P and 8000Q (pre-amp and power amp). I was able to hear the 8000S integrated a year ago and really dug it. Full bodied, detailed, and with the tightest bass I think I've ever heard. Many will think it's a downgrade from Exposure, but I really enjoyed the sound and the added power (watts per channel and peak power current) should help deliver the sound I'm looking for.
I'm wavering though between the 2/8 and the Excite X16. For $400 more, the nicer finish, better cabinet, and better drivers are enticing. But I wonder if the 2/8 will excel at rock more than the X16 would. Tough choice! I'm also considering the Monitor Audio RX2, another big 8-inch driver speaker with nice build quality. As long as the tweeter isn't as harsh as the old RS series it might work out. Kind of the best of both worlds compared to the Dynaudio - the big driver the 2/8 uses but with the nicer build quality of the X16. And at the price of the 2/8. |
I concur with your thoughts on the RS6 Hieule5. I technically had the RS5, but it's pretty much the same speaker. I felt it did everything well but the highs were way too strong.
Well now I'm also considering the PMC TB2i. Heard a pair last year and looooooooooved them. They were always going to be the speaker I wanted in the long run but were a bit too much money right now. Everything is ultimately going to depend on how much I can get for my current gear and how much the Audiolab electronics cost. But I might be able to step up to the PMC, especially if I also part with my turntable and phono stage. I probably won't leave vinyl entirely, but get back in again with a nicer table in a few years. Vinyl just isn't so much better sounding than CD that I just have to have it.
I'll be comparing these four speakers (the MA, PMC, and two Dyns) in early June. One plus for PMC is the higher sensitivity and easy load...I can surely get away with just an integrated amp. I think I can with the other speakers too, but I'm sure the Dyns would thrive with the extra power. It won't be a deal breaker though...if I go for Dynaudio then I will just buy the 8000S integrated and add the power amp later on. |
Just in case anyone is still interested...
I bought an Audiolab 8000S for half off the retail price. Couldn't turn that deal down. In comparison to my Exposure, the Audiolab has toned down the highs nicely, and provides a more full bodied sound with a deeper soundstage. It's a punchy little amp with great build quality. The downside is probably less PRaT, as the Exposure sounds quicker. But I'm okay with that trade off.
The Dynaudio speakers are probably out of the picture. I did an in home trial of the Monitor Audio RX2, a similar design with the 8 inch driver. They were too much for my room, with lots of boomy bass. I'm a little concerned now with any rear ported design as my speakers are fairly close to the wall, so I'm shifting my focus to front ported speakers.
I was also able to try out the PMC TB2i, which were amazing. Deeper and more tuneful bass than my Quads, and better detail and clarity. You can truly follow every musical instrument clearly. They certainly highlighted the weaknesses in the 12L2. The PMC isn't a typical rear port design, but they are pricey. I'll buy them if nothing else comes close but hopefully something will.
The next demo will be of the ProAc Studio 110. Hopefully it can come close to the PMC's at about $1,000 less. If that doesn't work out I'll check out the Paradigm Studio 20. |
I've always been interested in listening to a pair of ATC speakers. But I'm thinking they might be a little tough to drive for the Audiolab. It's got some guts, but ultimately I'd prefer a load that's no harder than average. |
A really good dealer here carries Spendor. The SA is a little pricey and I need something a bit more full range. I won't be using a sub, and I primarily like rock music. I might give the Model One a look...but it's even more expensive than the PMC. My ideal price is about $1,500.
Despite what I said, I went to listen to the Excite X16. It's definitely a speaker that can rock. Deep but clean bass, with a nice sense of scale. The music flowed really nicely out of them. They are definitely on my short list, despite my concerns about the rear port. |
Thanks for the suggestions! I'll look into the speakers you mention. A tough thing with buying used or online is that I've got some things to trade in. Dealing with a dealer who accepts trades or sells on consignment would be a lot easier for me. I could sell on A-gon, but being in Canada makes that a little tougher, and I've never sold before. There are dealers here for many of the speakers you suggest though, so I can probably make most of those happen if I want.
Cheers |
I'll be trying out the ProAc Studio 110 and Paradigm Reference Studio 20 next. You know, the Paradigm seems more and more interesting to me. From some of the reviews it sounds like it provides exactly what I'm looking for: a big soundstage, lots of detail, deep bass, a full bodied sound, and an overall neutral tonal balance. The front port is a plus. I'm a bit worried the ProAc will sound a little thin for my taste, but we'll see.
I prefer speakers with an either 6.5 or 7 inch driver, so something like the Imagine B or Rainmaker probably won't deliver. The Rainmaker I've read can also sound quite bright, something I generally want to avoid. I'm not averse to listening and having my mind changed, however. You never really know until you listen. If the ProAc and Paradigm don't do it for me then I'll probably try the Totem models you guys suggested. Usher has always looked really good too, I'll have to see if there is a dealer in my area. |
Well, there are a few reasons why I'm not jumping at this or that speaker just yet.
I have some speakers to listen to first before I commit to anything. I've gone through many speakers this past year, and I don't want to buy another only to be dissatisfied with some aspect of the sound. So I'm not rushing into a purchase and would rather listen to various options. I've also been able to listen to many of the speakers on my list in my own system at home, something I cannot do when buying online. I'm not totally sold on Dynaudio for my system/room as I haven't been able to try them at home, but the Dyn dealer here will let me borrow his pair if I felt I needed to (as mentioned, I cannot do this online). Then there is the fact that I've got some things to trade in, and dealing with one dealer who does trades/consignment would make that a lot easier.
I won't entirely dismiss making this purchase on Audiogon, but it's just not how I'm leaning right now. That option is great if you know what you want, or just want to try something out and then sell it later on if you don't want to keep it, but otherwise dealing with a local store has it's advantages. |
