I'm thinking about a Cullen cable for a Furman it 20 I powering two monoblocks but I only need a 4' PC. His top model is only around 350
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I think no way you use 600 watts other than maybe for a fraction of a second if you turn everything on all at once.
A used Synergistic Research Master Coupler is right in your budget range. Big, bold, detailed and very well balanced. There's a reason they sell used for about what they went for new 30 years ago.
If your $5K "power regenerator" is going to regenerate the power anyway, and then you are going to run other power cords from the regenerator to the equipment you plug into it, then why not just use the largest gauge copper power cord that delivers current to the regenerator? Your 9 awg Pangea AC-9 cord should be plenty large enough. I would be more worried about what is coming out of the wall.
I know some say it doesn't make any difference beyond a certain size but I have found otherwise after constructing power cords from 10 awg NOS WE wire and Furutech FI-11 connectors using 6 individual runs in a star-quad configuration - so an aggregate of 7 awg to each the load and neutral (and same to ground). When run from dedicated 20A lines to my large monoblock amplifiers, the difference was a noticeable improvement over 10 awg Oyaide TUNAMI V2 power cables. You can get basically the same cord from TRL as their Seven Plus - American Series, which is made from (you guessed it) pairs of NOS WE 10 awg wire. I believe they braid rather than twist the wires (tomato-tomahto).
What gives you the impression the P10 needs a "better" pc than the already better than stock pc?
Power cords don't "pass" wattage.
Just my experience-I plugged a $25K+ Nordost Odin II into my PP which normally is a Heimdall II. No angels singing/rainbows. The PP just did what it normally does. I also did Nordost Blue Heaven vs Heimdall vs Pangea AC13Se=no noticeable difference.
koestner - can't say with certainty what will benefit your PSA regenerator. Can say, I switched out the stock Istotek Premier on an Aquarius power conditioner for a Shunyata Venom HC and heard a significant improvement in sound. I tried a Pangea AC9 on it but thought sound with the Venom HC was better. I heard further improvement over the Venom HC when I tried a Shunyata Delta NR v1 and still more with a Shunyata Alpha NR v1. The biggest step-change, however, was with the Venom HC. Call The Cable Co. and you can rent a Venom HC or get in touch with Music Direct. You can buy from MD with a long (45? or 60? day) money back return option. Good luck. Hope this helps.
MC and TJ:
600 watts I think is about correct as the P10 says the system is drawing 420 watts at idle (my 2 mono amps idle at 150 watts each). Now the P10 runs at about 66% efficiency so 420/.66 = 636 watts. If it goes from the wall into the P10, then yes it is passing the watts through the cable. Watts are Voltage x Current and about 600 watts are passing through the power cord while my system is running.
I was thinking of going to a solid core cable instead of stranded, but keeping within my budget... any chance?
Help out someone who has never owned a power regenerator. After reading what tablejockey wrote, it makes me wonder that as long as the power cord can deliver enough electricity to the regenerator, what does it matter what power cord you use? I only ask because as PSAudio states, the unit "regenerates new, pure, safe, and unrestricted AC power". So as long as the unit isn't being starved, then, within reason, what does it matter what happens before the electricity reaches the unit prior to being regenerated?
Jetter, I felt the same way, but PS Audio even says a better power cable will sound better?? So my quest for a better cable has started. I also just discovered that Audio Envy has a Mega 3 Power Cable that uses more conductor material for higher current applications. A 5 foot cord is $306, so still within my budget (if I can ignore the $6). Has anyone got an opinion on this Mega cord?
What does it matter? That is the 64 thousand dollar question.
Let me ask you this, what does it matter which diode is used? The diode comes before the power supply filter caps. All the power used comes from the caps. So what does it matter what diodes are used?
It matters, a lot! But why? Because nothing ever is perfect. Obviously. So no matter how good a conditioner, regenerator, or power supply, until and unless it is perfect then it will always matter what is done upstream.
I have used things all the way out at my utility meter, and heard just as much improvement as when used in the panel, where the improvement is just as much as when used directly under a component. There are a few places that matter more, but a girl has to keep some mystery about her or the guys lose interest.
I experimented a little with power cords for PS Audio Premier regenerator.
In descending order: older Purist Audio Dominus Ferox - best. Unfortunately I need it for the power amp. Then Purist Audio Aquila, Wywires Silver Digital, Custom Power Cord Company Top Gun, PS Audio don’t remember the model, something old and inexpensive, and finally $15 14 gauge shielded cord bought on ebay. So I have Purist Aquila on the Premier. The Wywires gave a little clearer sound but soundstage collapsed by comparison. Aquila is 12 gauge cord designed for digital equipment but it works quite well there.
Yes, power cord on PS Audio regenerators matters a lot. It is not only about passing the current, shielding is very important too. The cleaner the current entering the regenerator the less work for the regenerator, I guess, and the better the outcome. Some people put various conditioners in front of regenerators with good results, but I am not there yet. Some even plug one regenerator into another.
$300 will buy something that should be OK but I would spend more. You would have to try a few cords.
I have two PowerPlants. One is a P20 and I have that fed by a AQ Tornado HC cable I got at a discount running from a Shunyata wall outlet fed by a 20 amp line direct from the breaker box. I also have a P12 which is fed by a Shunyata Venom V2 HC cord to a PS8 which is then connected via a Shunyata Delta NR to the wall another Shunyata outlet as above. The reason I don’t have an even more robust cable on the P12 is because the receptacles on the P12 are close together and I the plug would partially block an adjacent receptacle. I could also use a Shunyata Delta EF cable there.
As mentioned above a used a Kimber PK10 Gold is a very good cable. Used to use them on my amp going directly to the wall and my PSA P5. Later went to WyWires Silver Juice II HC (High Current) on my P5 and it was an improvement with lower noise floor. WyWires Platinum HC on amps. The Kimber is really good, a little softer presentation if you want to mellow your system a little. Pretty sure the Kimber is not shielded so keep clear of other cables. Very flexible cable too. Later version have black Techflex jacket and look nicer than the earlier green jacket.
You already have the Pangea AC-9, so why not compare it to the stock cord that came with your P10 to hear if those who say cords don’t make a difference are correct. Do the test for yourself and maybe save your money.
Totally agree that if you don’t have dedicated circuits and proper receptacles you should start there. Best thing I ever did to my system and looking back I probably wasted a lot of time evaluating and upgrading equipment prior to.
This is a comprehensive review of ’Best in Class - 27 best Audiophile Power Cables - Shootout' - poststed by Jay Luong:
Please understand that these particular PC’s are way overpriced of what the OP’s price range is. Nonetheless it was an eye opening read for me and most manufacturers tend to use the same technologies albeit scaled down to the less expensive models.
The Synergistic Research Atmosphere UEF Level 3 surprisingly, fared quite well against all the others 27 well known and not so well known top level brands.
In the OP’s price rage the Synergistic Research has introduced the ’Foundation’ series power cords ranging in prices range from $299 to $699 at the standard 5ft lengths.
All manner of used Synergistic Research PC’s also come up for sale as owners of these PC’s tend to upgrade. And there’s nothing wrong with buying used.
You want to get power from the wall to the regenerator over a distance of 5 feet? And you want to push 600 watts (5A at nominal voltage). How would you spend more than a couple of dollars doing that? Standard household power cable does that all day long. Nothing is going to change between the wall and the regenerator. It is the PSA 10's job and raison d'être to eliminate line noise, waveform fluctuation and feed perfect sine wave power to your equipment. Spending hundreds of dollars for a "cable" to bring it power makes no sense whatsoever.
Well, it looks like there are 2 camps here. One says keep what I have because before the P10 "wire is wire" and the other half thinks it all matters. Just for the record, it is a dedicated line with a SR Black power outlet. I was tempted to get the Audio Envy Mega 3, but this ongoing discussion has me undecided. I guess like all "hi-fi" there will be forever disagreements.
“ I was tempted to get the Audio Envy Mega 3, but this ongoing discussion has me undecided.”
You came here to ask for opinions and you got exactly that! If you don’t think your audio system worth experimenting with a $300 power cord on a $5K component then my friend you are in the wrong hobby :-)
What is the worst outcome...you buy that cord and don’t hear any improvements over existing cord. Well, you sell that cord and absorb some loss but you will stop wondering and move on to focus on something else in your system. That piece of mind, knowing you have tried and trusted your own ears is priceless.
BTW, I am using AE Mega 3’s in my system, excellent cord for the money.
Well, it looks like there are 2 camps here. One says keep what I have because before the P10 "wire is wire" and the other half thinks it all matters.And a third camp that also believes "it all matters" but need not be more than what is optimal for the job. A 7 to 9 gauge power cable is likely larger than the romex in your wall and should deliver the current just fine. Good connectors and shielding would be a plus.
You are surely right! Save that I've got a lot of sense :-)
You've probably read my posts elsewhere about the juice coming from the power station via the sub-station and your house wiring. Unless it contains active filtering circuitry, the last 5 foot of wire cannot change the juice that has travelled 100 miles on someone else's wires.
That PROVES I am right on this. It's just simple logic.
+ 1 on Cullen Cable. The only downside is their product rarely shows up on the used market and there is probably a 3+ week wait if you order something directly from them. I have no experience with Pangea products; but, a friend of mine who works in the audio business was impressed with them based on their price points (most will tell you the same about Cullen Cable).
Based on your budget and browsing the current Audiogon listings, there appear to be intriguing options from: Silnote, Audience, Morrow Audio, Audio Art, Nordost, Synergistic Labs & Acoustic Zen.
Good luck in your search!
+2 to lalit. Those who say you just need X gauge and your all good have never tried other power cords to listen how they effect SQ. I can tell you that the Mega 3 is better than any other PC I've tried. I certainly would not send it back and like I said before, will be buying more. Take the plunge and you'll hear just how good AE power cords are. You have 45 days to send back if you don't like them.
I know you said "power cord" but I’d rather just give you a lot of great info about cables and how to get the best possible sound. Read my entire message to learn...
Firstly, buy a "hospital-grade" power cable cord. Better than standard, cheap, or "reference" power cables. Why? they must be certified to reach a particular standard of operationality.
But why do cables sound slightly different? Inductance, capacitance, and impedance are specs that manufacturers can tinker with. And when they do, the sound invariably changes. (more bass/treble/midrange) they can tweak that. So your "reference cables" are now coloured sounding and useless.
A cable shouldn’t add anything to the sound. Short runs of cable always better if you can.
All you need are interconnects with PCOCC copper - was invented in Japan. The crystal grain structure is actually smoother and more linear than standard copper. Look this up...I’m sure you’re curious now.
PCOCC cables are ideal for connecting components together. But besides that, Furutech speaker wire and the cable that came with your headphones are fine.
No need to spend thousands, or tens of thousands. One really funny event - One of my buddies bought a cable with an "advanced filter" to improve the neutrality of the audio. We opened it up and a combination of foam and superglue were holding it all together.
Once we striped the wire, we found the cheapest and thinnest copper we’d ever seen...and tons of shielding surrounding it to make it appear to be a hefty and "high quality" cable.
But alas, I cannot teach anyone anything. I can only make them think. The worst thing that could happen is when people always go back to what they were doing previously, and failing; then blaming me for trying to help them.
"Thanks to all, except that guy who kept "schooling" me about the watts. :-)"
just passing along actual hard fact. I’d like to think everyone here wants to acquire knowledge and maybe pass some.This thread caught my attention since I believe in both the PP and some cable tweakery.
The disappointing thing is no one else came in for the assist to back up the basic electronics 101 facts. That’s more concerning.
Once again, wattage is the product of current and voltage at a load, that’s it. It doesn’t "flow" anywhere. Voltage doesn’t flow either.