in a smaller room, the micros are incredible. in an average sized room, the 100's are going to play a bit deeper. overall, they are incredible...factor in the price, and there are really isn't much full range competition unless you want to fuss with placement. if they were made in germany, they would literally be 3k. i compared them the fj oms and classic allison CD7's, and they bested both.
They are great speakers and a 120 day return policy, I doubt they have very many returned unless the buyer is really desparate for the money.
That's all consistent with what I've heard. It was down to the Ohm's or the Totem Arro's when I bought my new speakers a couple of months ago. The Arro's are still breaking in, admittedly, and I wouldn't say I'm feeling "buyer's remorse," but I now kind of wish I'd tried the Ohm's first.
That's why being used is a good idea. Reduces the risk and lessens the loss
when you resell.
It's never too late.
Buy the Ohms and bring them in for the 120 day home trial. If they really float
your boat, then the enjoyment you gain from them will far outweigh the
monetary loss of reselling the Arros.
Life's too short for "what ifs"...
I bought them and returned them. They do great parlor tricks when set up properly but overall not very revealing. I suspect many would be happy with them but for me they were so-so.
Good point about buying used. Actually, that was my original intent, but to maximize WAF I needed the Arros in black and couldn't find anybody selling that color on A'gon. I am tempted to do what you say and bring the Ohm's in for the audition.
How as your experience returning them to Ohm? Any hassles? And can you explain what you mean by "parlor tricks" and "not very revealing?"
gotta respond to 'not very revealing'. the ohm line has a 'decades old' history of going for a neutral/balanced presentation. they favor no frequency. the 120 day trial is a chance to live with playing lots of music. many speakers(hi end and other) are designed to dazzle you with certain frenquencies (the real parlour trick). the ohm's only trick(which is no trick at all...just using the room intead of fighting it) is the 'sweet spot', which is 'everywhere'. you could spend 3 or 4 times more, and get less. it would hold its own with the forrest or staff from totem, and yes i like totem a lot. if you like all kinds of music, and don't want to worry about buying only those cd's or lp's deemed audiophile, you're home free(except for the cost of the speakers) with the micro tall. give to arros a chance certainly, but once you go ohm, you will likely find out why they still ring a music lover's bell.
How far off the walls do they need to be? Or more succintly, do they tend to be "near wall" tolerant?
I'm thinking of getting a pair for my living room, which is a secondary listening area to my listening room. They would live near walls, unless I pulled them away. Mostly for casual listening, but sitting on the couch reading the paper or something.
Also, how would they do in a room say 10x16, but open to other rooms. I would be listening in the nearer field (within 10 feet of the speakers), but the overall open space when considering the connected rooms is a lot of air.
Note that I don't want to put big speakers in this living room - not enough real estate available. So, for small speakers with small footprints, would these omni's be a good bet???
What John Potis, the reviewer at 6moons.com, said that really intrigued me is his statement that, "I find [the Micro Walsh Talls] unequivocally enjoyable, without any major nits to pick that would qualify my enjoyment."
So that's why I'm interested in trying them out. That and the soundstaging.
18 inches to 24 inches would be ideal.....
When I first spoke to John at Ohm, he said they could go as little as 6" to 10" off the rear wall, but that would of course depend on the rest of the room. My room is only around 15' by 12'.
john is correct. they really change character very little by pulling away from the back wall.
I've had mine for 4 years - great speakers:
easy to place
not quite as pretty as some others
best to stay away from overly live rooms
Helpful comments, thanks!
I've heard these speakers referred to several times as "non-fatiguing," and I wonder what that means. Do you feel that they have a "mellow" or "warm" coloration, or is it that they are well controlled and don't get harsh when played loud, or something else?
never harsh or 'in your face'...but not overly sweet...neutral
I understand the huge sweet spot and the huge soundstage, but what about imaging, i.e., placing instruments in space? It's hard to imagine this given that sound is bouncing all over the room.
In my experience, the sound doesn't bounce around so much, as the room is "energized" by the sound that comes from the speakers (I think John Potis used that term). In other words, as Ohm used to advertise years ago, the back wall of the room just disappears.
Although the Ohms aren't hyper detailed - I heard, or rather saw, the placement of the instruments in an orchestra with the Ohms in my room. They don't have that Hi-Fi, super detailed sound with images floating in space - it's more tactile than that.
The non-fatiguing aspect - I don't think of the speakers as warm, but smooth. But not smooth in the sense that you're missing out on the performance, just natural, I guess... I think it's the fact that the the tweeter crosses over so high - the mid-range is not affected.
no more bouncing than a conventional speaker. the sound stage is what ohm is famous for. the fact that they are balanced across the bandwidth, and convey weight, is the icing and the cherry on the cake.
" the ohm's only trick(which is no trick at all...just using the room intead of fighting it) is the 'sweet spot'"
That is a very good way of putting it.
"They don't have that Hi-Fi, super detailed sound with images floating in space - it's more tactile than that."
I've found adding a tube or two in the source or pre-amp section moves them towards this more so than SS.
For optimal balanced sound, top to bottom, tube power amps are not recommended however.
"fact that they ... convey weight"
For larger scale ensemble recordings that require this, as well as rock/pop, I think this is where you would hear the biggest difference between Ohms and other speaks in the same price range, including Totem.
They will hold their own with most anything else in their price range for less demanding recordings as well.
I cannot believe I did this, but I actually ordered a pair of Micro Walsh Tall's today! :-D The description of these things by the people who have and love them is just too good to pass up.
The Arro's are still breaking in, and they're clearly very fine speakers, but I'm bugged by the fact that the sweet spot is so narrow in my listening room... it's just not relaxing to have such a narrow physical window for the best sound... it's actually a little stressful, which totally negates the point of having a good system. I just want to be able to relax and enjoy my music. Anyway, I'm still tweaking the position of the Arro's and trying to dial them in (yesterday I tilted them backward a few degrees to try to get the tweeter height aligned properly)...
I ought to have the Ohm's in a week or so... I'm getting them in black for the "WAF." ;-)
If the Ohm's float my boat, I'll just bite the bullet and put the Arro's up here on A'gon. I'm going to take a hit on resale value if that happens, but I'll chalk it up to a learning experience. And if I decide to stick with the Arros, I'll return the Ohm's.
Thanks to everybody for their help... I'll report back.
I cannot believe I did this, but I actually ordered a pair of Micro Walsh Tall's today!
Glad you finally made the decision.
report in Rebbi... i think you'll be amazed in more ways than one.
Rebbi, congrats, now you can listen and know for sure! That's the only way.
From your description, I think the Ohms could well be your ticket....we'll see!
Thanks for your support, guys. Sometimes Audiogon feels like some kind of 12-Step group for people with audio dependency. ;-)
By the way, how have you folks found the fit and finish on the Ohms to be. I've heard they're not the greatest in that department.
By the way, how have you folks found the fit and finish on the Ohms to be.
The fit and finish of the Ohm speakers I auditioned two years ago was fair at best.
Have fun auditioning! Take advantage of the 120 days - really let 'em break in.
Finish-wise, I think they look great. I think the black ones will look really nice, and they can hold their own in any decor. I just did a major renovation - custom cabinets... and my Ohms look great in the newly renovated space (mine are walnut).
If you have questions along the way, just let us know, and call John at Ohm!
Mine are both refurbished units from Ohm. Fit and finish are fine if not exceptional...probably not in the same "fine furniture" league as say Dynaudio or Quad.
Yeah... the fit and finish on the Totems is really tight as a drum... "furniture grade," as they say. I don't care that much so long as they're not flat out awful looking... just hoping they pass muster with my significant other. :-)
Rebbe, for what its worth my wife has very high standards in home furnishing and has never complained about any Ohms I've had over the years in our living or sun rooms.
I think size-wise, they will be more or less the same size as the Arros, ie very minimal footprint which works great for WAF.
The big decision for most is whether to keep the cover on or off.
For a number of years, I re-did the covers of my old Ohm 2s myself using nice loose weave fabric to replace older covers that were worn. The thing I liked about the custom fabric I used was that it was loosely woven and when the light shined through them, you could see the "cans" inside in an almost translucent fashion...very cool!
I think the new black ash finish will look very sharp!
You're right about the footprint. The Arro's are 5 inches wide and 7 inches deep. The Micro Tall's are 6 x 6 inches.
I also ordered a pair, and will report here as well.
Cool, Peter_s! I look forward to trading impressions here!
My MWT's should be arriving Monday... they shipped from Ohm on Thursday.
Great! I shall look forward to your first impressions and later a more detailed review.
When are you expecting yours?
Mine won't even ship until this coming thursday. I must have chosen the wrong finish!!! (cherry)
Mine are black. They are scheduled to arrive today, but my office is closed, so I won't get 'em till tomorrow.
I think they finish these things to order, and that black is popular enough to keep a few in stock.
I wonder, in this economy, how many speakers they're shipping a month, these days?...
Well, the speakers arrived today. I haven't had the chance to open them yet, but man, you wouldn't believe how badly UPS mangled one of the boxes. I called John at Ohm right away, and he said that the speakers are double boxed deliberately to handle what UPS dishes out. Yikes!
By the way, I had them shipped to my office so that somebody would be there to sign for them. Well, they arrived after closing time, and UPS LEFT THESE TWO HUGE BOXES SITTING OUTSIDE OUR BUILDING ON THE FRONT STEP! Yowie!
This is a kind of like a three panel comic in the paper each day.
We're on pins and needles for the box opening...
the suspense is killing me
Unboxed the smashed carton this morning and the speaker inside looks fine. I will write back when I've had the chance to actually hook them up and listen to them... should be around the weekend.
" The suspense is killing me"
When my big, heavy, Ohm 5's shipped from Ohm, the cabinet boxes were reinforced with solid particle board for protection.
I'm in the next day delivery zone for UPS in NY, so they only had to survive in their system for less than a day and arrived unscathed.
Mine arrived only in bubble wrap...
Got to listen to them for about 20 minutes today before having to get into work. Sweet spot is huge, indeed. I'm sure they're not placed optimally, yet. Not enough time for tweaking. I must say that it's a pleasure having those nice flat plinths and not having to mess with getting floor spikes leveled!
Presentation is very different than the Totems...
Played a few cuts from Steely Dan's "2 Against Nature." They "filled the room," that's the best description I can give in shorthand. I need to listen more.
Bass is strong and copious and well defined. Not yet sure what distance from back wall is optimum in this regard...
Played a few minutes of the "Princess Monononoke" soundtrack. The opening drum crashes were HUGE. The orchestra sounded like an orchestra... not like "a stereo reproducing an orchestra." I think these things may smoke the Totems for orchestral music. :-)
I need more time with these things...
More to come...
By the way, for you guys who already have the MWT's, what's a good starting point for messing with positioning? Separation of speakers equal to distance to listening position, or what? And how far off the back wall? And did yours come with any kind of instruction sheet? Mine didn't.
generally...a couple feet(approx) out from the back, and three feet in on the sides...can vary to acheive proper bass.