Hungryeye, have fun with those 4's, glad you are getting them refoamed and back to good working order. My 3000's are wonderful and I am enjoying them very much. I would have just gone for a pair of older 4 cabinets and the new 5000 series driver if I had the extra money to do so. I believe the ability to fine tune the driver of the 5000's to any particular room with the included switches make it a very long-term speaker. I would surely recommend going for the 5000 if you can stretch that far when the time comes.
Trebejo, I do think at times we do make a little bit of a mountain out of a molehill, especially with the power issue. I do think that tube-watts just seem to be more balsy, with solid state, I feel the added power is a good thing depending on the room and acoustics. Just my observation. I have never heard Ohm's with tubes, might have to borrow a tube amp someday as I am sure it would sound pretty lush!
One other comment that I failed to really bring up in my mini review was break-in time. The 2000 driver didn't take much time to really sound at it's best, but I felt the 3000 to be a completely different beast. While both sounded pretty good out of the box, the 3000 just took a long time to settle in and smooth out. Initially I found both to be a little shut-in at first, and the 3000 also had some issues in the mid-bass that took awhile to shake. I don't know how many people really do not use the time to adequately break these speakers in, and I feel this might be the cause of some initial reaction to how they sound at first. They need time. I never put much stock into this break-in thing, but with these new drivers, it made me take more notice of it.
Tim |
Thank-you all for your kind words and input, it has been fun! Will update more as time goes along. Tim |
I have been enjoying the 3/3000's a lot, have been on a couple days vacation and have played the Ohm's constantly. Just listened to Allison Kraus/Union Station Live, and wow, well recorded live music is just simply a treat on Ohms! I feel they already do a wonderful job with sounding very live to begin with.
I am constanly amazed with how these portray a musical event, just very realistic and so very musical.
One other comment I have with in regards to the older larger cabinet Ohm's, mine has casters on the bottom of the cabinet, and it makes them so very simple to just roll around in order to find the best listening position. Then when I am done with a more critical listening session, I can roll them back out of the way.
While I do not find the Ohms to be really super-critical as far as placement or electronics, they reward you when you go to that last little extra bit of work to find the sweet-spot so to speak. They also are very rewarding as far as equipment upgrades, they allow you to hear even more detail or differences in source gear etc.
Enjoy your music, I know I am! Tim |
Very cool Simon, I was thinking earlier that if I could utilize 2 MWT's in series, and use them as a center placed just right behind and to the outer edges of my flat LCD that it might really be trick, but I am just playing around with various options when it comes to a center channel.
While I think the Ohm's can make a good excuse for just utilizing a phantom center, I have really felt like a dedicated center is better in the long run, just no substitute for good and solid dialog. So many choices, so limited on funds! Tim |
Hello all, just ordered my MWT omni's today from John. Decided to take advantage of his Black Friday sale, and he made it well worth it! Can't wait to get them and break them in.
I ordered them in the older square cabinet to kind of match my older Walsh 3 cabinets, and in walnut veneer. They will be a lot of fun I am sure.
I also asked John about the center channel speaker as well, and he gave me a couple of different, but good options with the Walsh lineup. I am going to wait on that one for now.
Enjoy the music! Tim |
Just a quick update. After purchasing my MWT omni's from John during his Black Friday sale, I have been spending a lot of time just using them as my main speakers in 2-channel mode for quite sometime now, mainly just getting a feel for what they can do. I have to say that they have been sounding so good, that I haven't even wanted to stick my 3/3000's in anytime soon.
I had purchased them mainly for use as surrounds in my home theater rig, which they perform wonderfully in that respect. My curiosity got the best of me though just wanting to hear how they would do as fronts only for 2-channel. Basically, I am really thrilled at how they do sound in this respect. I am quite amazed at what is achieved for a speaker that is so physically small, yet sounds so large and grown up. While it doesn't match the bass depth of my 3/3000, what is there is so very good, that again, I have been in no hurry to put the 3's back. I really did not know what to expect with the omni as my fronts, but I have to say that I like the presentation so very much, from the mids on up, I like it even more so than the 3's(This isn't to say the MWT's are better than the 3/3000-while they both have the same family sound, it is more of a presentation that I am enjoying more with the MWT omni).
I had given this some thought even before purchasing the MWT omni, trying to think about what presentation they would give, and I don't think I really had a good answer until I got them and tried it. I had initially thought there would be this massive wall of sound that would be coming at me, and that it might take away some instrument detail and locational cues. But I was wrong, instead the soundstage actually seems to take a bit of a step back away from me at the listening position, yet it has a more open soundstage. I also had thought that having the tweeter facing the ceiling, music would be sprayed all over, and image height might suffer in a negative, overblown way. Again, I was wrong. I have yet to find any of my music where this arrangement sounds un-natural at all. In fact, I have come to prefer this overall presentation to my 3's.
One aspect that this arrangement does somewhat diminish, and may be a deal breaker for some, is the way the traditional soundstaging is with the CLS driver versus the omni. With the omni pattern, you do give up some of that wide expanse and separation of instruments regardless of where you sit. If you happen to be sitting closer to the left speaker, you are going to hear it more and the music will not be as balanced as if you were sitting on-axis with the right speakers tweeter, and can clearly make out the whole stage effect still.
So, you may say, what is the point then of having an Ohm? Good question, and one I am still playing with. In my room, I am typically seated more or less in the sweet-spot anyway, especially when doing critical listening. This is where for whatever reason, I just seem to prefer the omni-pattern more, it just gives more open-ness to the music, and seems more 3-dimensional and realistic yet. The midrange/vocals just seem to be a little more realistic to me. Again, this is in my room, and with my gear. When I take my critical-listening hat off, I tend to not really care a whole lot about staging etc., but still enjoy the music. This omni-pattern doesn't take away the musicality at all, it still allows me to enjoy the performance very much.
I talked to John Strohbeen awhile after I had taken delivery of my MWT omni's. I told John what I had been doing and that I really enjoyed the omni presentation in my room. He said that a lot of people like that, and his only reservation was that on certain female vocals, he said things could sound a bit strange or off. Maybe John could elaborate a bit more on this. So far, I haven't found anything that I have found to be unrealistic or objectionable. Instrument detail and image height is every bit as good. I just keep on listening and enjoying them.
So, after listening for awhile more, and taking notes, I decidied to give John a call and see if he could make me up a set of omni 3000 drivers for my cabinets to try. I am very curious as to how these will work, larger driver and cabinet. I am anxious to hear if these will give me what I have in the MWT omni-I have no reason to doubt that they won't. So, a pair of 3000 omni-cans should be on the way soon if all goes well. It might take awhile for me to give an update on this, but no doubt you will be hearing more about this at some point I am sure.
I am still amazed at the little MWT, it is an incredible performer, one that I constantly think of as a best-buy anywhere near it's price range. I would definately make sure it is on your short-list if you are in the market for a small speaker that just sounds bigger than it has the right too, and yet just gets out of the way and sounds better than a lot of speakers that cost a good deal more money.
I would also like to hear from all of you that have joined in earlier about upgrades on your older cabinets etc., I hope all is working out for each of you. Enjoy the music! More later! Tim |
Map, when I have pulled the MWT omni's out further into the room, the stage does seem to go a bit deeper however, the loss of some impact in the mid/bass tends to thin things out too much. There is a happy medium with it depending on what you want to give up. If I had a pair of subs to augment things, it could be really interesting. At some point I would like to try this.
I am sure there are some compromises in the products that John has developed(and what product isn't compromised to some degree?), but overall, I feel he has hit an extremely good compromise if there is one to be made. I am not sure what the compromises really are as the midrange/treble is pretty much consistant with the lineup, just as you move up the line, you do get more bass and maybe a bit more fuller midrange. I am still constantly amazed at how musical and enjoying these MWT's are. Good stuff indeed! Enjoy the music! Tim |
Map, I do think that the controls make the 5 series drivers nice, the controls can seem to help tailor things a bit and not totally mess things up along the way. Obviously with the MWT's, you are limited from the get-go in regards to bass depth and the ability to energize a larger room. I could see where folks would just be overly happy with the MWT's in a smaller more enclosed room. Again, would like to play with these and a good pair of subs, might be really sweet.
I too have wondered what the 4000 series driver in a totally omni arrangement might be like. John had said that the 5000 due to the control switches couldn't be made this way as they would block some of the backside of the driver. But the 4000 driver and cabinet is the same size as a 5000, you just give up the controls. I am sure it would be an interesting comparison, whether or not it would compete with the MBL is an even bigger question and again could prove very interesting. I would surely like the fact that it could potentially save a good sum of money! Tim |
My biggest hurdle is proper spacing/placement of a center channel speaker. I am looking at moving my 40" Sony LCD at some point to my bedroom and getting a 55-60" LCD to put in it's place. The screen currently sits on a lowboy cabinet that has my gear located in it. This stand is wide enough to accomodate the 55-60" set as well, but I really don't want to put it on a riser so that a center channel will not block any part of the lower screen, and I haven't been all that thrilled with most wall-mounted centers either. Maybe I am being too picky, and hence my thought about utilizing two MWT's at the very corners of the screen, and wiring them in series as a center channel. I do need to play with this option at some point. The other part is wrestling with how my omni MWT's would be in this mode, or if the traditional 45-degree firing angle would be best used in this center configuration.
I also have Magnepan MMG's and a MMGC/center that I will be playing with soon, but I still prefer the Ohm's over the Maggies. I would love to just have John make me up a set of Ohm's all around in the proper configurations if I could just get things sorted here-and once I have a little extra cash!
The more I play with the MWT's, I find how versatile they really are in various applications, and also just how consistant in sound quality/musicality they remain in these various configurations. I just need another pair to add to my situation in order to play a bit more.
Thanks for all the input guys, this is fun stuff! Tim |
Thanks Bond, I was looking at Amazon a couple of weeks ago and checking out some risers just to place the LCD screen on and get it up a little higher to test the Maggie center I have. I may end up going that route for awhile, but I don't know if I will ultimately like the screen height, but will see.
I did find a really cheap riser($9.95) at Target that is open backed which the Maggie MMGC needs to breathe properly, so that may be just what I will try for the fun of it. It will at least enable me to get a good perspective on the MMG/MMGC.
Right now I am hesitant to wall mount the TV until I know I am going to like the position of everything, screen and speakers etc. I just haven't had much time to play around with things lately, all work and no play.....
Would love to see pics of your Ohm center channel speaker, I know John can make up different versions too, depending on need. I am holding off on the Ohm center until I play with the above, and also try some more things with my MWT's and 3/3000's. Tim |
Fin, I have wondered myself too what or how ARC or Audessey would work with the Ohms-or wouldn't for that matter. Would be interesting for sure! Unfortunately, I am in the dark ages, wih my "lowly" non-Arc Anthem AVM-30! But I sure do love the sound of it as it is! Tim |
Thanks for the info. on the Audessey. Again I have no expeerience with it and have heard amny comments based on the typical cone and dome vatiety of speaker, so this is interesting. Someday when I get rich, I will have to upgrade my Anthem AVM-30, and get the ARC. I am sure there are many benefits to it all.
Glad your MWT's are working great with it! The MWT's are just outstanding period. Isn't audio and all that music so much fun! Gotta love it! Tim |
I have always liked the pyramid-style cabinets from the first time I auditioned a pair of OW-2's in the early 80's. They are very unique in this world of typical box type speakers.
As far as my OW-3X0 cabinets, they are almost exactly the same volume as the new 3000 cabinets. The fill/stuffing is different, but I really don't know about how this difference affects the overall sound, never had both of them side-by-side to do a comparison.
I do agree with Map's comment with regard to the can/driver listening height. I do like having the can/drivers at or near ear-level, and I do think the older cabinets are a bit better in this respect. Both my 3/3000's and the MWT's are about the same height in this regard. With the Omni, I don't think this is an issue as the tweeter fires directly up at the ceiling.
Also, the castors are a nice thing to have, easy to roll out in position, and then roll back if you need more space. Also, you can swivel the speaker a bit, toe-in to suit your tastes. I do think the built-in plinth though has good merit as well, no messing around with the port, or direction of the port. Also, on carpet, this makes it nice as well, you don't have to mess around with other types of plinths. Everyone's mileage will be different in certain instances though I am sure.
I was able to play around a bit with regards to using the Ohm MWT omni in a center channel configuration, one on either side of my 40" LCD screen. I was able to put them right alongside, but slightly in front of the edges of the screen, and my Anthem processor allows for 2 center channel speakers. I utilized this configuration, and using my standard 3/3000's as L/R, I didn't have surrounds or subs. I have to say that I liked this very much, but felt that the standard configuration drivers instead of my omni-versions would work much better in my situation. Still, it was a very good little test. Dialog was a bit easier to understand especially on some tracks that aren't so great, but I found the omni presentation made the whole center/L/R more of an enveloping thing rather than more direct center dialog. Panning from L to R was still good, but just different from a more direct driver approach.
I could see a nice 6 speaker MWT surround setup for my room would work very well, with a pair of subs, and the MWT's are fairly small and don't take up much floor space. Of course there are several other configurations that would probably be better-see Simon's setup using all Ohm's for his room.
I am still playing with my Magnepan MMG/MMGC too, and this is interesting. Not to hijack the Ohm discussion side of things, I do fine the Maggies to be a pretty good alternative, even though they get put down for use in A/V mode due to "lack of impact" etc. But I do find this setup to be very detailed and it pulls you into the films rather than smacking you upside the head with the bombastic blasts etc., all depends on what you are looking for. Also, I find the Maggie to be very good on concert/music DVD's as well. The Eagles live in Melbourne is just fantastic with these.
Hope you all had a great Holiday weekend! Enjoy the music! Tim |
Thanks Map, I have been wanting to do a small "review" for some time, but honestly, I have been too busy enjoying listening to them versus just talking about them!
As with all speakers, setup is the key, and I am still learning a few tricks here and there, mostly room dependant though.
The only other speaker that really has my curiosity is the Shahinian Obelisk, but it is difficult to listen to them without going to Shahinian's factory, and I don't know anyone close by to get a demo. But I am enjoying the Ohm's too much anyway!
Enjoy the music! Tim |
Morgenholz, thank-you for your information on your Ohm's and the many speakers you also own. I think that is good testament to just how good Ohm's do sound.
Another option I might suggest to you if you have the funds to do so, would be to keep the 3XO's as they are, but instead upgrade the 4's to the 5000 series driver. When talking to John Strohbeen at one time, his comment was that the Walsh 4 with 5000 series drivers was one of his favorite.
Either way you go, you will have a very good setup. I do think that the money difference is well worth considering going the 4/5000 route versus 3XO/3000. You will gain considerably more bass, and yet more control with the included switches in the 5000 series can.
If I had the extra funds to do so, the 4/5000 is what I would have now. But in the meantime, my 3/3000's are doing the business!
Also, for those of you that haven't for whatever reason gotten any updates from John, he is having his first "Black Friday" sale today and tomorrow I believe. Give him a call to discuss your needs. Enjoy your music! Tim |
Map, my MWT's are configured as completely omni as they can be, tweeters pointing straight up, and no back wall damping, just the typical light layer on the inside of the can face all around. Not sure exactly what it is made of, but there you go.
I find that the soundstage depth doesn't change much with regard to wall placement, just the bass for the most part. I typically have found in my room that the MWT sounds great anywhere from about 18" out to a few feet, and adjusting the stage width until the music appears to be coming from two distinct speakers, then moving them back a bit to taste. I do find most of the Walsh/CLS speakers can be placed pretty far apart without collapsing the soundstage, but you can kind of go too far with it and then the stage takes on a little non-realistic sound/presentation. While I don't find them to be terribly picky as far as placement, playing around a little here and there does reap rewards, and every room will of course be somewhat different. The 3000's will also take a little more experimenting with that too once I get them.
My room currently is a bit odd, in that the wall that the Ohm's are along, has setbacks on the left side and then also along the right side of the speakers for a small entry area, and on the other side a hallway opening. So in a sense I don't have a total "long" wall in which the Ohm's are placed. So, almost out in the open to some extent, the right speaker having a bit more wall reinforcement for it. I am preparing to try another wall that is straight across/flat soon. Will keep you posted. Tim |
Sonic Holography was an interesting thing, I had a Carver C-4000 for a brief time in the mid 80's. It was interesting on some recordings, but not so great on most. Rather "noisy/grundgy" as well. I didn't have Ohm's then though, just the typical cone/dynamic driver speakers.
I haven't messed around with any of the newer processors that have the room correction such as ARC or Audessey. I have no idea how it would see Ohm's general spacial features and how it would adjust. Probably in the bass regions, it might react/adjust fairly typically, but curious how it would react/adjust otherwise to the mids on up. Being frequency related, not sure how it would really change overall spacial characteristics, or if it even would. Again, even reading about all these nice technologies, experience is the key I am sure. My own speculation is probably far off.
Maybe someone out there has given it a try and will chime in.
Just as a side note, have been testing a Magnepan MMGC center along with my MMG's(no surrounds/subs at the moment). I find the Maggie center to work extremely well with the MMG's and is very seamless across the soundstage. Will be trying some more setup/testing in time. Have a test disc coming from Magnepan this week. I am not giving up on Ohm's, so no fear there. I am just playing with my other gear, seeing what works out best in the HT mode at present.
Am planning on trying the Ohm MWT pair as a center with my 3/3000's as L/R, hopefully this coming weekend if all goes well. That ought to be interesting to say the least! Tim |
Fin, basically I haven't heard much of a difference-if there is one at all with spikes or other types of coupling with the Ohm's. The driver motion is basically in the vertical plane, so there isn't any cabinet movement that I can detect, and this goes for carpeted or wooden floors as I have them both. Some others have commented I believe on mainly getting the speakers leveled as best as you can, and just try to keep them from rocking on uneven floors, but that is usually a given for most to begin with.
I do find the no-brainer approach to the fixed-plinth bass-ports on the newer cabinets to be good, but one thing with my Walsh 3/3000's is that depending on how I have the cabinets arranged, I can somewhat change the port locations a bit with regard to it being closer to one edge of the cabinet. This is due to the port not being placed directly in the middle of the underside of the cabinet. I haven't found this to do much in any of my applications, but maybe could be an option for someone that had older cabinets and had to place them closer to a back wall or cabinet of some sort.
Other folks might chime in with little tweaks of their own, the main thing is, the Ohm's are for me a very easy to place speaker, and really less fussy than so many other speakers. I think that playing around with placement and electonics/cables can reap some extra rewards, but in general, a very "livable" speaker with very few negatives in my book. Enjoy the music! Tim |