Thanks for your review monster. I've been curious about these for a good while now.
I'm not sure about the quality of the Amazon steaming service, but you may want to look into a hi rez Tidal account.
Sounds like you made some well reasoned decisions based on the info available. Ohms and omnis are different beasts. Hope it works out for you.
One thing that Got my attention is the sweet spot assessment. That should in fact be similar throughout the room (other than bass response which will always be different to some extent in different spots in most rooms with the norm or only two speakers). with the soundstage and imaging shifting with the perspective, similar to what you would hear from different locations at a live performance.
I found that even with some prior experience listening with Ohms and omnis the ears have to adjust to fully take in all there is to hear.
Also the speakers will likely take some time to burn in so expect different hopefully for the better results after a period of playing. Higher volumes will help accelerate that.
I had Maggie’s prior to my current Ohms. Different beasts as well. I had to dump them mainly because I could not place them far enough away from walls in my current room. Also the dynamics were lacking for most forms of popular music.
Thanks mapman. I am actually noticing the sweet spot takes some getting used to. If I open or close my eyes or move around in the room the sweet spot as it were changes. I think I do have to grow accustomed to it.
I got to listen to some higher volume today. Scared my cats, which I admit was kinda cute in a sad way. The sound was really great. The Ohms stayed really well composed. They just got louder.
I also placed them yet closer to the wall. Got more bass. Deeper bass. Could feel the bass. Might try putting the mystery switches in the middle position.
As I learn more about them I am getting more impressed and happier with the Ohms.
Do you know what drivers are on these? Presence of switches tells me 5000 drivers which should have 4 switches per similar to my 5s: low bass/room size, high bass/ location (corner, near wall, away from wall), midrange/presence and high frequencies/air.
These help tailor the sound to the room and personal preference. Very useful!
No need to guess. Contact Ohm and ask about the switches if needed to be sure.
I really liked my SSC-4900s. I'm going to put them up for sale as I have replaced them plus all of my components with Dutch & Dutch 8cs. You are right that they need power. I drove mine with PS Audio M700 monoblocks. The only thing holding me back from listing them is the crappy packaging as you mentioned. I will have to put them on a pallet to feel good about shipping them. Good luck with them. They are very good when broken in.
@tlm5857, curious as to you changing your handle here from craigsub? M700s and 4900s. I’ve been researching ohms for a while now. Figured that has to be you.
I recently demoed the Ohms here at another members house. The 5000s. I was really impressed. Huge deep bass, and I think the same drivers are housed in the 4900s. keep playing with your set up, suspect they get better.
it was mentioned to me that Ohms are tricky to ship, and they don’t seem to care much how they are packaged. So that seems consistent. Flip side he said Ohm was always willing to support and fix any issues.
good luck, I’ve heard some older ones and now the 5000s. They were Huge sounding to me.
Ah right I remember a lot of the older Ohm Walshes had a switch or two down below where the terminals are. Forgot about that.
I didn't realize they survived upgrades in some cases apparently.
For example I had original Walsh 2s from the 80s with switches down below for many years. I now have upgraded Walsh 2s from ~2007. No switches down there on those.
trudat, lucky that you got to actually hear some of the 5000s or any Ohm for that matter. Glad you liked them.
I debated the 4900, 4000, and the 5000. Evan at Ohm recommend the 4000 or the 4900 based on my queries. Said they would sound almost identical. With the switch the 4900 can be used in various sized rooms whereas the 4000 is just for large rooms. Like the 4900 I guess the 5000 can be tamed down from good for very large rooms to smaller rooms. As I recall I thought that 4900 was the best compromise between performance, price, and aesthetics.
I've been tinkering with the setup. Everything sounds good to very good plus at this point. Things are really looking up at this point. Little changes in the speaker positioning can be easily heard.
“By sharing my thoughts I aim to give back here but also to provide some information I wish I could have found out when searching high and low for information on these speakers. “
I’ve seen three or four video reviews of Walsh Ohm products posted lately. The most credible two said they were good (for firewood). Zeos (Z reviews +100k subscribers ) has been bamboozled by them. Exactly like some were by 901s.
I am not saying you don’t know what you’re hearing, but dude! For that money you could have got some really legit speakers that, moreover, would suit your room far better.
You write so well. Loved reading your post. But don’t eat crow man. Just send them back and do some good research and get something really exceptionalLy sounding not something exceptionally weird.
This might be a bit off the main topic but @mofojo is absolutely right. Amazon sounds great and it’s huge. Bad source files don’t sound very good and they sound just as bad on Tidal. Amazon has millions more albums than tidal. The good source files sound just as good on amazon. My view is that amazon will not always be where it’s at but it’s an ocean of good music that is going to flood over everything. We ignore it at our own loss. (The OP seems to get this). Streamer manufacturers face roadblocks but better figure it out because it is absolutely going to their bottom line if they don’t integrate or are prevented from it.
( I was initially tempted to hold off the keys and remain a 'passive observer' of this thread...but, Walsh devotee that I am...no...)
@spirit...Pardon me, but Ohms are 'legit' speakers. 'Omnis' by their nature just don't happen to be 'everyone's cup of tea'.
And I could rant 'n rave @ you further, but I'm not in the mood. *S*
@ monster, I'm personally pleased by your choice. And Yes, they will respond to 'tinkering' with placement. As they 'break in', response will improve as you've already noticed. And having oodles of watts at your fingertips should prove to be a big plus over time....
It helps to be a fan of 'minimalism' with furnishings on the 'front wall'. They like having 'free air' about them...*S*
I am a bit dismayed by your comments about how a 5K$ pair of speakers was packaged, and having one arrive with a dinged 'cage'. One would hope that the 'standard bearer' of omnis would show a bit more care for their product. That, and the 'fit and finish' observation would bother me.
It's like having a new car arrive with a scratch in the edge of the windshield... It may not interfere with the purpose, but it's there and it shouldn't...
Being 'light' in weight is curious...and I'll leave that to itself...
Mine are, but that's intended for my DIY's at 8" in diameter...
Please, Enjoy the 'space' you now have. Play Loud, and Play On...;)
I have owned many of the ohm speakers.
ohm 1’s, 2’s, 3’s,4’s three pairs of differing sound cylinder (older ones) and FRS-15’s
in sort , I loved the ohm speakers. That is UNTIL
I heard some Shahinian Obelisk. For my take the Shahinians are MUCH better than any of the ohms I have had and have a similar Magic of non boxy large soundstage while being MUCH MORE natural and presenting a clearer more real soundstage. Tonality on the Shahinians is second to none. They also need a bit of power though and sound better pulled away from wall.
it is so easy to move them as they are on castors.
Highly highly recommended.
My impression of the 2000 is very similar to yours. They sound better when you crank them up a bit with lots of power behind them but they seemed to lack upper mid detail which is why I eventually sold them. Admittedly I replaced them with a much more expensive speaker but as I get older I find I like my listening level on the moderate side and the Ohm's didn't excel played moderate to low, at least not to me.
@spiritofradio can you share with me here the links to the recent video reviews of current Ohm speakers? Can you suggest another full range speaker I can place close to the wall? I'm open to switching. Also, I can't see any reason to get Tidal in addition to Amazon. I also have Spotify (free) and Sirus XM radio (paid).
@avsjerry I'm liking the Ohms the more I tweak their positions. I'm gonna give them time to marinate in my mind for sure. Regarding the weight I understand that they can build a rigid speaker in a round shape with different materials and less bracing etc. That is cool in a way. They do, however, sort of present it a more beneficial to them than to the customer in terms of manufacturing ease and cost savings. They are easy to move around and unbox. I just pulled them up and out by the plastic with one hand. My last speakers weight 200 lbs each so the mass of the Ohms was a surprise. There are other little niggles with the fit and finish that I won't belabor here. They look fine. Some speakers in the price range look better but whatever. With the bent hat set at a certain angle it hardly shows; probably only to me.
@cmckasty I've never heard of the Shahinian Obelisk. A brief Google search suggests that they are a very old design perhaps not available now??? Anyway, if they need to be out in the room they probably are not for me in that room at this stage of my life.
@djones51 what did you buy to replace the Ohms?
Two comments. I was surprised by your comments about the poor packaging. I bought a set of Ohm 1000s a year and a half ago and they were over-packaged, if anything -- each speaker was in a box, which was in another box, which was in a third box. I was half-wondering if this was only to discourage their return since repacking would have been so complicated! ;-)
I auditioned a pair of Shahinian Obelisks a few years back (actually I went to look at some Harbeths at the time but also listened to some other speakers since they were there.) I was not very impressed with the Obelisks. But, everyone has a different taste when it comes to speakers. The point is to buy what rings your bell, not someone else's.
“@spiritofradio can you share with me here the links to the recent video reviews of current Ohm speakers?”
just search in YouTube
“Can you suggest another full range speaker I can place close to the wall? I'm open to switching. “
I really don’t want to get into a pissing match with the crazy old farts on here about who’s favorite speakers might be better for you.
Dude you made a very well articulated plea for help. You were fishing for somebody to just be honest with you and so I threw you that lifeline.
There are fantastic speakers that work best against a wall or in a corner. Do a little of your own research and you’ll find one.
@frazeur1 ...*G* Back @cha'...and Happier New Decade to us all!
(Just for grins 'n giggles I'm waiting for 2:22am, 2/22/20 to buy a Lotto tix; just to see if I can force some $ynchronicity...*L*)
Monster, glad to 'hear' that....placement is a major element for omni's & dipole drivers. It's worth the effort...and it's just plain entertaining to 'play with the New Toyz' for an extended series of 'serious listening forays'.
After all, it's what we do best...Right? ;)
@cmckasty, actually I have heard a pair of Obelisks...Really! Now, in all fairness, they were..OK. Pleasant, but didn't grab me by the ears. It may have been the demo room (most suck, frankly; audio shows aren't conducive to fair observations IMHO), the 'upstream equipment'....but I'd bet it was what was on the TT @ the time....
That, more than anything I've noted, with my Walsh or the bulk of what I've heard, is the major hurdle....
There are recordings on any format that exhibit that delicious sense of 'air', the space about and between the performers. Or the technical artistry of a 'really good mixdown' (I prefer 'mixup' in that sense; but it Does have a negative connotation that's kinda sad...).
Too much comes off as flat as month-old roadkill...even with Walsh in Surround. Fun to play loud, but...it makes one think the engineer phoned it in...from another state...
As for 'from where' and/or 'in what sort of' is debatable...*L*
@m-db , 'round' (let's say 'cylindrical'...more accurate anyway *S*)
I'm using cylinders as supports, but also as 'enclosures' much the same fashion as the Ohms. But 'port-less', and the length/diameter has been 'adjusted' to bring the fundamental fq to attempt to 'park it' where it could be more 'helpful' than a hindrance. That, and they're Stuffed with polyfill...*G*
(If one doesn't, the 'back wave' sounds like Rudy Vallee and his famous megaphone....but it's hilarious to hear Van Halen's "Hot for Teacher" sound like that...)
Anyway....y'all keep playin' @ playin'...
"just search in YouTube"
I did, I have. You said negative reviews were out there. I asked you to share because I've yet to find one.
"I really don’t want to get into a pissing match with the crazy old farts on here about who’s favorite speakers might be better for you.
Dude you made a very well articulated plea for help. You were fishing for somebody to just be honest with you and so I threw you that lifeline.
There are fantastic speakers that work best against a wall or in a corner. Do a little of your own research and you’ll find one."
I can, and have done research on my own. I asked you to share since that is doing research and you seemed to have some ideas. I don't see how that is getting into a pissing match, this is my thread and I'm not pissing on anyone.
Some thoughts. I have A pair of 5000's and now recently updated/upgraded Pro-3000's.
Ohm Packaging - It's been really hit and miss for me. Some of it (the can's for the 5000's) packaged separately, absolutely outstanding packaging.
Some of it - My 3000's on return - not so great. Had a dented and can that had been knocked loose. Ohm was good about the return though, they paid. But - when returned - packaged differently... had the same issue with the other speaker.
Build quality - the same. My 5000's lowers are tanks, and the 3000's use the round cylinder which works great, and being light is a huge advantage. Attention to detail is decent, but not great.
The "grills" I think OHM is just limited by the design. Mine are all fine. Had one with a ding, easy to push 95% out. But, I can understand frustration by all. But OHM is always GREAT about support. Also, my 5000's are a bit older and I needed parts, and an update and they are always EXTREMELY reasonable about prices to get parts, updates etc.
So, it's a mixed bag for sure.
Well, they sound fantastic to my ears. But set-up is an absolute key. OHM's need the reverse of the Dead Front / Live or dampened rear. Ohms really work best with a live front end. I don't have any room treatments in the front half of the room other than dispersion on the front (speaker) wall. I have a couple bass traps in the rear and use dampening just forward of my listening level. I have the tweeters set to cross just in front of me. So, if you have a dead front end of the room, that will affect them (I've played around a ton).
But, man they do sound live, open, and huge. They like power. They also reflect changes in my audio system more than most. They are not the absolute most detailed speakers I've owned. The bass, awfully good, midrange is good and very coherent.
As for sizing, you have the "Biggest" available other than the powered towers. Those 4900's use the 5000 drivers. Honestly, being round they allow you to play with set-up even more. But, I would really suggest making sure you don't have the "ohm" label pointed straight ahead. Try it more toed in so that the axis from each will cross in front of you, or just behind your head.
I find the soundstage to be wide and huge. Imaging is very good left to right. They don't image as "deeply" as some other's I've owned. But they sound as big if not bigger than anything I've owned. They can be played loudly and not lose composure.
I have some Salks on order, suspect at least one of my 5000's or Pro-3000's will be sold. But I don't see selling both pairs. They are fun, and voiced very well.
If you want fit and finish, top end materials and drivers... Salk does that better than anyone for the money IMO.
Good luck, but I wouldn't give up on them just yet. Play with the room if you can.
If you are going to focus on the weight and materials, you won't be happy with them. Kind of something I had to get over with them also.
it will be interesting to hear your perspective after the Salks arrive... the craftsmanship and attention to detail, including the packaging are excellent.
Ive wanted to try a pair of ohms... but after owning Salks, I’m not sure the issues you brought up, even though small, wouldn’t drive me crazy.
@dep14 Thanks for your thoughts. I can only alter the speaker positioning. There will be no special room treatments this time around although I appreciate what they might do.
While everyone says the Ohms are not the most detailed speakers available (and I basically echo that) they paradoxically manage to reveal even small changes in positioning. That, and the switches on the back of the hat make a noticeable difference too. It seems then that they are very revealing but not uber detailed for whatever that means.
Now I've got them aimed more or less at the center of the room with the switches in the middle position. Bass was too boomy from one listening position with the switches up. Makes sense with the instructions since my room is large not very large.
At this point the Ohms are outstanding and vexing almost in equal measure. They can sound fantastic but not always. Certainly, the source material matters. But I find images, that is, voice and instrument localization can move around seemingly based on my concentration/head tilt/eyes open or closed/or whatever. In one notable case imaging was better than I've ever experienced from any system at any price. Vocals often sound palpably realistic and also sometimes lack warmth sometimes at the same time. The volume levels they can reach before you are aware of just how loud they are is almost incomprehensible. I do like to rock out.
One limitation I have is that they sit astride a cabinet that holds up the TV and contains the media player and amp. According to Ohm they speakers like to see each other. The only way for me to do this is to pull the speakers out from the wall more than the recommended amount. The closer I've put them to the wall the better they have sounded and the more they disappear physically into the room. Can't see pulling them out.
I'm very interested in your Salk experiment. I did consider them but like the Ohm it's a mail order risk.
monstertruck9882, you point out an interesting issue.
Many (or more likely, most) of us are stuck with our rooms as they are. They are not dedicated listening rooms and the stereo must coexist with the other uses for the room, as well as the other residents of the house. A TV on a cabinet in between the speakers is one of the most common issues, and it can affect the imaging ability of Ohms more than the typical and conventional front-firing speakers.
That's one of the factors and compromises that needs to be considered when deciding if Ohms are the best choice. For me, my Ohms were (and still are) keepers even though I know I could improve their sound further if the room could be dedicated to exclusive use as a listening room.
There is a lot to take in with the Ohms. Many details to focus on as desired. But they are not overly bright nor tipped up in regards to air normally plus room
acoustics and gear upstream play a big role. Plus the resulting sound will respond to most any common tweak made, perhaps more so than most.
So bottom line is there is a lot of variability and overall sound to deal with but a focus on optimizing the setup overall over time can pay big dividends.
I’ll go out on a limb and predict most Ohm owners out there have not tapped their full potential.
I'll vote with mapman on that...anything omni responds to the space they're in; perhaps more than a 'conventional speaker' pair...
They Depend upon 'reflection Control, rather than 'damping'...with an exception of 'bass trapping' the corners. Smaller spaces in particular...
The smaller the given space, the more I'd suggest leaning towards 'minimalism' in furnishings if at all possible. 'Early reflections' will tend to muddy imaging...subtle, but there. I'm looking forward to setting up in a new space where that's distinctly likely. Not even the usual 'gear in the middle... (If I'm really lucky, 'seat-side'...Nice...*G*)
Only speakers and the flat screen....and spouse is lobbying for a Larger One! Omg...*L* Pinch me.... ;)
"Brightness"....I'm working on that.... Ohms have always been 'restrained' in that regard...and MHO is well known in that respect, and my approach to same...the 'tipping' aspect is a function of the design. Again, HO....*blah, blah...*L*
Upstream stuff?....'garbage in > garbage out'....same as any sort of data.
One's budget on such determines how far that goes, and what's expressed into the room....where set-up Rules.
Spend the time and effort. ;)
So, yes the switch on the 4900's is for bass response.
I use my 5000's in a 13 x 17 room, 9 foot ceiling which some might consider small for the 5000's. It is carpeted over concrete in my basement, which I feel is a tougher, but "tighter" sounding environment than say a floor over the basement.
But, I run the bass in the "mid" position but pull the speakers out a bit. I can get more bass pushing them closer, but that adds to the boom. You may want to try further out from the wall but then moving the bass to the + position. Really play around with them. Closer to the wall reinforces the bass, but I find it muddier.
Seems like great minds think alike. Yesterday, I had some time to play around with the positioning. Wanted to see if pulling them out past the TV stand/cabinet would improve things even if the bass suffered. Ohm says the speaker like to see each other.
I immediately noticed a big positive difference. As mentioned by everyone (and me) these speakers really show every small change in position, much more so than conventional front facing speakers. I have no experience with open baffle designs but I suspect they are also tricky.
Then I again boosted the bass with the switch back up to the upper most position. Then a slight toe in adjustment. Voila!!!!
Now I have consistent, mostly precise, wall to wall imaging with some depth. Satisfyingly deep bass response without bloat or boom. Smooth and detailed midrange with an incisive snap/fast leading edge transients. Pleasant and satisfying if not airy, and certainly not bright, treble. They sound pretty darn good now. Really amazing actually.
Low sound levels make be happy, this can do background music well. But I can also wake the neighbors, which is lots of fun. This great sound just gets louder. Amazing actually. Some songs that when played loud I know, I expect most setups to get congested (even expensive kits) just get louder with the Ohms. The composure at high volume is super fun and not just for rock. Symphonies and even chamber music benefit from near realistic SPL.
Thanks to all for chiming in here. I can heartily recommend the Ohms. Now time to enjoy the music.
So, I am the lucky fellow who bought tlm5857's ssc-4900's. A little background: 3 years ago, I had a burst water heater put 6 inches of water in my basement listening room. I saved my equipment and cd's, but the room, to this day, is not habitable. The walls were cut 4 feet from the floor to allow dehumidifiers to address mold issues, etc. I will fix it one day. My 3000+/- cd collection has been stored in storage bins. I recently bought a Bluesound Vault II to rip my collection into and manage the clutter issue. I have been using my surround sound set up with an old Denon receiver and Bose speakers mounted on the walls. It is great for movies, but I missed two channel listening. I am the geek that likes to turn on the Braves game with the sound off, listen to whatever strikes my fancy, and read. I have been researching speakers for a while. I considered Maggie 3.7i, Daedalus Ulysses, Wilson Sophia's, Tyler Acoustic Decade d-1x's, Vandersteen Treo ct's, and Ohm Acoustics- all of them used to fit in my budget. My bride and I are going to add a great room off of the back of our house. It is going to have a mountain lodge type feel with lots of bookshelves, a stacked stone fireplace and a trellised ceiling close to 20 feet tall. When I saw the rare pair of SSC-4900's pop up on Agon, I scooped them up in anticipation of our new room. Right now, I am running them with a Musical Fidelity A3.5 fed by an Oppo 205 in my living room. This thread has been helpful in positioning. I try to burn 5 or 6 cd's into the Vault per day ( I work out of my house) and have been rediscovering music from my collection as I dig into the storage bins. Everyone has their own personal favorite reference recordings: Rickie Lee Jones, Vivaldi, Cowboy Junkies, REM, and Eat A Peach were standouts for me. But Saturday, I received my copy of Bryan Ferry's "Live at Royal Albert Hall 1974" in the mail. This album was recorded 60 days after the release of Roxy Music's "country Life" album and Ferry was at the peak of his creativity. Ferry wanted to release a solo album of uplifting tunes because the last couple of Roxy albums had been very dark. The first part of the album are covers of songs like "It's My party" and "The Tracks of My Tears" by a 15 piece band including a brass section and dewop girls singing background vocals. The second part of the album is Ferry accompanied by a full orchestra playing some Roxy Music and some of Ferry's solo work. The SSC-4900's were spectacular producing a huge sound stage with depth and occasional small bits of percussion, strings, or keyboards bouncing off of the walls. I knew I had something different when my Springer Spaniel (who joins me for happy hour) was looking around the room for other people. The Ohms are good fun and I look forward to working with them going forward. The big sweetspot does take some time getting used to, but that just means there is more music to share IMO. The musical fidelity amp has been sitting around for a long time and only has 150 watts per channel. I am thinking about replacing it with a Peachtree Audio nova 500 to get some juice to the Ohms.
@maxnewid that's awesome. Seems like you are getting good results. The Ohms do love juice. I also considered the Peachtree. Are you close to the wall or out some? How about bass switch position? Toe-in?
I was rocking out last night with my 5 year old daughter. There are still many albums I've not yet heard on the Ohms yet. They constantly surprise me. "Time" on DSOTM actually scared me. Was not paying all my attention to the music and the alarms going off were so realistic it gave me an anxiety attack ha ha.
It is so easy to locate individual instruments in space and pull them apart acoustically. Accurate timbre and weight and attack makes for some realistic or at least highly satisfying musical experiences. The cohesiveness of the sound is also beguiling. Having essentially one driver really seems to work out well.